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Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

gweed123 said:
That's what I would imagine would happen. The tunnelled section of the ECLRT and the current SLRT would open first, with the elevated connecting track opening a couple years later. Even without the connecting track, those two components would be valuable pieces of transit infrastructure on their own. But connected they would be crucial.
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The problem is that the TBM launch site is located in the median of Eglinton (on the hillside west of the West Don River). We are shooting ourselves in the foot by doing this and limiting the ability to build this as grade separated in the future.
 
doady said:
Instead of extending the subway to SCC, what they should have done instead is convert the existing Bloor-Danforth line into LRT so that an LRT replacement of the Scarborough RT can utilize it. Think of all the other possible LRT lines that could feed into the subway like Don Mills, Jane, Morningside - it just makes sense.
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First of all, converting all BD high-platform stations to low-floor LRT would be astronomically expensive. High-floor LRT or mini-metro trains would be required instead.

Secondly, the volume BD subway carries requires long trains. Street-worthy 2-car or 3-car LRT consists cannot handle the volume. You would have to use 5-car or 6-car LRT consists and those cannot run in street median. That means, you are replacing the existing subway with a mini subway, the only difference being that they new cars can negotiate tighter turns and fit the SRT alignment more easily.

With all the above limitations, it seems that simply extending the subway in the McCowan corridor is far easier than doing something to the whole existing line.
 
BurlOak said:
They could also convert the Yonge line to LRT so that the extension north of Steeles could be built in the median - think of the money this would save instead of tunneling up to Richmond Hill.:D

PS. I am hoping that you were joking.
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Are you insane? Clearly the Yonge Subway doesn't have enough ridership for an LRT. It needs to be BRT. On the other hand, I think the Sheppard Subway needs to be upgraded from four to eight car sets. :cool:
 
Adjei said:
According to the report from the TTC and they said they worked with Metrolinx to prepare it, it would actually cost 2.9 billion to get Sheppard using the province's alignment. So let's say you take the 1.4 billion plus the fed's contribution you would still need close to close to 900 million from the city. Now I don't know if the province were to contribute the full 1.8 billion because they need to build a new Kennedy station for their alignment, then maybe the city will only need to contribute $500 million or so.
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So extending the subway, 4km of which is through an open trench and established corridor with no tunneling required, would come to a similar price tag as going entirely underground through an alternative corridor?!

Either the province's corridor numbers are overestimated or the city's corridor numbers are underestimated. I'm putting my money on the latter.
 
Electrify said:
So extending the subway, 4km of which is through an open trench and established corridor with no tunneling required, would come to a similar price tag as going entirely underground through an alternative corridor?!

Either the province's corridor numbers are overestimated or the city's corridor numbers are underestimated. I'm putting my money on the latter.
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Well according to TTC and they stated they worked with Metrolinx, the proposal that Murray put forward did not include:

1) Vehicles;
2) Storage facility;
3) Traction power substations;
4) Cost of interim replacement bus service routing & associated infrastructure; and
5) HST.
6) Signal system upgrades required for Automated Train Control;
7) Bus bridge during construction; and
8) SRT life extension until 2019, the start of construction

So if you add these options on and build it out to Sheppard, Murray's proposal is more costly (2.9 billion compared to 2.5 billion for the McCowan alignmet)

If you only build it out to Scarborough Town Centre, then the province is cheaper by 100 million (1.8 billion compared to 1.9 billion).

http://www.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Com...upplementary_Reports/Scarborough_Subway_O.pdf
 
Adjei said:
Well according to TTC and they stated they worked with Metrolinx, the proposal that Murray put forward did not include:

1) Vehicles;
2) Storage facility;
3) Traction power substations;
4) Cost of interim replacement bus service routing & associated infrastructure; and
5) HST.
6) Signal system upgrades required for Automated Train Control;
7) Bus bridge during construction; and
8) SRT life extension until 2019, the start of construction
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Not exactly surprising. I was always suspicious of Murray's pricetag.

I find it interesting that government has to pay HST. Seems a little counterproductive to be taxing yourself :eek:
 
With the whole province versus city debate on the route for the Bloor extension, maybe the best solution is a compromise. It would partly run on the SRT route, serve Scarborough Centre more centrally, and connect to Sheppard more quickly.

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EnviroTO said:
With the whole province versus city debate on the route for the Bloor extension, maybe the best solution is a compromise. It would partly run on the SRT route, serve Scarborough Centre more centrally, and connect to Sheppard more quickly.

View attachment 18527
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The two people who are in the best place to propose a compromise are Murray and Stintz. They have the technicals experts of Metrolinx and TTC behind them who came come up with a solution to satisfy all sides. Unfortunately, these are the two individuals who are the source of much of our existing troubles. Either Metrolinx and TTC are too stuborn or incopetant to find a solution, or they have a solution but Murray and Stintz are too stuborn to propose it.
 
Adjei said:
So the actual cost for this three stop subway is $3.56 billion?

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/10/03/council-to-battle-over-transit-options-tax-hike
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It probably wouldn't be that much more expensive to build the cheapest option for the SRT (conversion to Mark III vehicles without extension) and the Sheppard subway. The Sheppard subway extension from Don Mills to STC would be only slightly longer than Karen Stintz's proposed line, though it would need more stops (likely Consumers, Victoria Park, Warden, Birchmount, Kennedy, STC).
 
andrewpmk said:
It probably wouldn't be that much more expensive to build the cheapest option for the SRT (conversion to Mark III vehicles without extension) and the Sheppard subway. The Sheppard subway extension from Don Mills to STC would be only slightly longer than Karen Stintz's proposed line, though it would need more stops (likely Consumers, Victoria Park, Warden, Birchmount, Kennedy, STC).
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$2.4B to $2.7B for the Sheppard Subway according to Chong report - which is without the Birchmount Station but with a separate Kennedy and Agincourt GO station and a Progress Station (7 total).
$0.7B to $1.0B for the SRT as Mark II - from 2006 TTC report, $360M multiplied by factor of 2 to get current dollars.

$3.1 to $3.7B Total.

Yup, they could probably do it. If they want to add a couple of hundred million, they could connect SRT to the elevated ECLRT.
 
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