Solid Snake
Active Member
my understanding is:
1/3 Feds (Infrastructure program)
1.8B the province (now the province back down to 1/3 of the cost at 1.4B)
the balance to the city
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my understanding is:
1/3 Feds (Infrastructure program)
1.8B the province (now the province back down to 1/3 of the cost at 1.4B)
the balance to the city
Forgotten
Active Member
Solid Snakes/Fresh_Start, Glen Murray should be your hero. He's paying for and delivering your subway to Scarborough and fulfilling a Rob Ford campaign promise. You should be kissing the closest Liberal right now.
LOL.
Tulse
Senior Member
Undiplomatic, or applying pressure? Do you think his remarks make it less likely the Feds will kick in, or more likely? If the latter, it's actually pretty smart politics -- threaten to embarrass Ford's federal conservative allies into ponying up cash they may be reluctant to part with.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
Keithz:
Let's not get too hung up over diplomacy though, it wasn't like the mayor or Karen Stintz is particularly diplomatic despite their hand. Besides, what are they going to do, deny the request because it was delivered stinging words? The federal government will make the judgement call on the basis of whether it serves their interests regardless.
AoD
Let's not get too hung up over diplomacy though, it wasn't like the mayor or Karen Stintz is particularly diplomatic despite their hand. Besides, what are they going to do, deny the request because it was delivered stinging words? The federal government will make the judgement call on the basis of whether it serves their interests regardless.
AoD
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
That is an incorrect understanding - the original city proposal of 3.3B (+250M for SRT decomissioning) is split the following way:
Province: 1.8B-2.0B
Federal: 660M
City: 900M (165M Dev charges + 745M debt financing)
So really, we are looking at the city paying what, 2/7 of the cost, 1/7 Federal and 4/7 provincial.
AoD
Eug
Senior Member
I think much of the public will actually agree with Murray, and like I suggested before, will actually be pleased by his actions here.
I don't think he should have been such a brute in his wording. He could have been much more diplomatic about the whole thing and still would have gotten his point across.
Also, like others I strongly suspect that they already got word there was no intent by the Feds to fund this, so they pre-empted the announcement. If the Feds still say no, they look like cheapskates, and if they say yes, they look like me-toos, pushed into it by Murray and friends.
Oh and I think Ford will come out of this no worse for wear.
I don't think he should have been such a brute in his wording. He could have been much more diplomatic about the whole thing and still would have gotten his point across.
Also, like others I strongly suspect that they already got word there was no intent by the Feds to fund this, so they pre-empted the announcement. If the Feds still say no, they look like cheapskates, and if they say yes, they look like me-toos, pushed into it by Murray and friends.
Oh and I think Ford will come out of this no worse for wear.
Solid Snake
Active Member
I was always supportive of the LRT connected to a fully grade seperated Eglinton Crosstown. Since it didn't seem to be the case anymore, the subway in the new alignment had the merit to be under construction without shutting down the SRT and having shuttle buses in Scarborough for years. Now, the province is building a subway in the current alignment which will shutdown the SRT regardless. Bad plan.
Scarborough subway would be a city asset and would be beneficial to the whole city... I don't even live in Scarborough and never have in the past but at least I get that. Your shortsightedness and divisive speech is ridiculous
Why are you calling me "freshstart"
Hipster Duck
Senior Member
That assumes that Ford has any influence at a Federal level. I think Ford is a complete lame duck - at the city level, let alone the Federal level.
I am coming around to the idea that Glen Murray isn't so shrewd after all. I don't think that this is a devious exercise that is meant to paint Ford and City Council into a corner over their insistence on building a subway.
After Mitzie Hunter's election in Guildwood where hollow promises of building a subway were a big plank in her platform, I honestly believe that Glen Murray is proposing this 2 stop subway because he thinks it's good for the future of the Liberal party. I don't think he gives a shit about what's beneficial for transit riders and he certainly doesn't have any intentions to revert back to the Transit City plan, let alone some sensible vision of connecting to elevated LRT along Eglinton which only exists in the minds of UT forum members.
Glen Murray is just another politician who's in it for his own personal gain. I doubt a 2002 version of him would recognize himself.
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Solid Snake
Active Member
I never claimed that the city was without fault, but truth be told, we wouldn't be having this debate and fighting among ourselves if the Feds step up like countries like France, England and even the US are doing in subsidizing for public transit and paying for a large portion of subway extensions.
If anything, the city hall debacle is truly a waste of time. Without the Feds, we'll never have a world class transit network
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Eug
Senior Member
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
Hipster Duck:
I don't think anyone but planners, transit geeks and maybe the ultimate operators of the line (TTC) care much about the details of this project - and in a sick way, I don't even see those living in Scarborough caring that much either once the subway angst has been sublimated. That's why I said Scarborough will get the transit line that it deserves - because that IMO is true in so many different ways.
AoD
I don't think anyone but planners, transit geeks and maybe the ultimate operators of the line (TTC) care much about the details of this project - and in a sick way, I don't even see those living in Scarborough caring that much either once the subway angst has been sublimated. That's why I said Scarborough will get the transit line that it deserves - because that IMO is true in so many different ways.
AoD
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Tulse
Senior Member
Why should he when the city doesn't either? The province is promising one and half billion dollars of real money to build transit -- that's certainly giving something.
Tulse
Senior Member
Eug
Senior Member
Gotta love that elitist attitude.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
Eug:
I am saying "in general" - under this proposal, you've basically replaced the existing RT, removed most of the intervening stops, the inconvenient interchange at Kennedy and improved operational reliability. Are some of these changes beneficial? Sure, but at the end of the day they are not revolutionary changes - and certainly couldn't be considered as much of a service expansion. You have said that the people of Scarborough will be satisfied even with this scheme, but seriously though, just how many people in Scarborough actually ride the existing RT (or will do so with the extension) consistently, vis-a-vis the population of Scarborough as a whole? The intensity of this debate belies this disproportionality - and ultimately I attribute it less to the importance of the line than on its symbolism.
I mean, analyze it logically - as undesirable as one additional transfer is, it certainly doesn't make a good case for this much existential angst (it isn't like the rest of us have door to door subway service). I think the only reason why this issue got as much traction as it did was the sheer politicization, somehow the elite screwed us again rhetoric. Remember the whole thing about the LRT - it wasn't about how bad riding on it is - the complaints was laser focused on how it is like a streetcar and screws the driver. That and the rhetoric surrounding the debate in general tells you plenty.
AoD
I am saying "in general" - under this proposal, you've basically replaced the existing RT, removed most of the intervening stops, the inconvenient interchange at Kennedy and improved operational reliability. Are some of these changes beneficial? Sure, but at the end of the day they are not revolutionary changes - and certainly couldn't be considered as much of a service expansion. You have said that the people of Scarborough will be satisfied even with this scheme, but seriously though, just how many people in Scarborough actually ride the existing RT (or will do so with the extension) consistently, vis-a-vis the population of Scarborough as a whole? The intensity of this debate belies this disproportionality - and ultimately I attribute it less to the importance of the line than on its symbolism.
I mean, analyze it logically - as undesirable as one additional transfer is, it certainly doesn't make a good case for this much existential angst (it isn't like the rest of us have door to door subway service). I think the only reason why this issue got as much traction as it did was the sheer politicization, somehow the elite screwed us again rhetoric. Remember the whole thing about the LRT - it wasn't about how bad riding on it is - the complaints was laser focused on how it is like a streetcar and screws the driver. That and the rhetoric surrounding the debate in general tells you plenty.
AoD
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