Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

[Tulse]

Gotta love that elitist attitude.

What elitist attitude? This is what the elected representatives of Scarborough have voted for, it is what the mayor has promoted for as a self-designated advocate for Scarborough. Surely what would be "elitist" is to force a multi-stop LRT system onto the unwilling public of Scarborough.

Do I think it is a mistake? Yes. Does that make me elitist?

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I'm getting so tired of transit politics.

Transit should be like any other public utility. Let the engineers figure out what's best and let them build it. We wouldn't expect some random Joe to be making decisions about our sewage system. We shouldn't expect him to make decisions about transit either.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Tulse:

Except of course that I was pretty far removed from being a member of that stereotypical elite, so there is a certain irony to the claim. In any case, I think this whole debate is illuminating - because we have went through multiple permutations of this argument at this point, and the only constant that seem to be matter in the public arena isn't route alignment, stops, ridership, speed, possibility for future extension, network connections, etc. It is mode - in fact, I would hazard to guess that you can build it straight to STC from Kennedy without a single stop and it will still be considered a "victory". That is suggestive of something more than tangible benefits.

AoD

 

[TOareaFan]

I'm getting so tired of transit politics.

Transit should be like any other public utility. Let the engineers figure out what's best and let them build it. We wouldn't expect some random Joe to be making decisions about our sewage system. We shouldn't expect him to make decisions about transit either.

Like gas plant location? Leave that to the planners/engineers or is that public utility excluded? Everything is politics these days!

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Like gas plant location? Leave that to the planners/engineers rs or is that public utility excluded? Everything is politics these days!

I didn't say leave the public excluded. Of course there should be public input. The poblem is that there is way too much of it. We have the public (politicians) dictations everything from the location of stations to the technology that will be used. It's completely insane. It's like having some random guy dictating to engineers what kind of cooling system they should use at the gas plant you mentioned.


As far as I'm concerned, the role of politicians in transit should be "we have a budget of X and need to improve transit travel times from downtown to Scarborough. Find the best way to do it". There should be a few meetings to address public concerns and that's it. But once you have random guys from off the street dictating to engineers specifically what to do, you're asking for trouble.

 

[TOareaFan]

I didn't say leave the public excluded. Of course there should be public input. The poblem is that there is way too much of it. We have the public (politicians) dictations everything from the location of stations to the technology that will be used. It's completely insane. It's like having some random guy dictating to engineers what kind of cooling system they should use at the gas plant you mentioned.


As far as I'm concerned, the role of politicians in transit should be "we have a budget of X and need to improve transit travel times from downtown to Scarborough. Find the best way to do it". There should be a few meetings to address public concerns and that's it. But once you have random guys from off the street dictating to engineers specifically what to do, you're asking for trouble.

I did not think you said no public input...but you did suggest no political input....and I would suggest the gas plant debacle is an example of politcal interference.

 

[M II A II R II K]

The public input is too selfish unto each person when it comes to alignments, too many stops, etc.

 

[kEiThZ]

If you want to know why a subway still has support, look at page 31:

http://www.toronto.ca/involved/projects/scarborough_rapid_transit/pdf/2009-06-02_display_boards.pdf

The LRT saves me (a Malvern resident) 15 mins over the current setup. However, the subway, with two less stations and one less transfer will probably save me about 5-10 mins. The difference is just too small for anybody to favour the inconvenience of a transfer. And this is what anybody selling LRT is up against.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

If you want to know why a subway still has support, look at page 31:

http://www.toronto.ca/involved/projects/scarborough_rapid_transit/pdf/2009-06-02_display_boards.pdf

The LRT saves me (a Malvern resident) 15 mins over the current setup. However, the subway, with two less stations and one less transfer will probably save me about 5-10 mins. The difference is just too small for anybody to favour the inconvenience of a transfer. And this is what anybody selling LRT is up against.

Would you support the LRT if there was no transfer.

 

[Voltz]

If you want to know why a subway still has support, look at page 31:

http://www.toronto.ca/involved/projects/scarborough_rapid_transit/pdf/2009-06-02_display_boards.pdf

The LRT saves me (a Malvern resident) 15 mins over the current setup. However, the subway, with two less stations and one less transfer will probably save me about 5-10 mins. The difference is just too small for anybody to favour the inconvenience of a transfer. And this is what anybody selling LRT is up against.

I don't think the transfer has has much to do with it as people not knowing what LRT on this route would really be like and the tendency of most people to favor subways.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

The public input is too selfish unto each person when it comes to alignments, too many stops, etc.

Eg. Leslie station on the ECLRT.

I wish Metrolinx kept lying to those poor folks and told them it couldn't be done.

 

[rbt]

I agree with the shots at the city. But I think it's undiplomatic to go after the Feds before they've responded. Particularly with the wording Murray used.

The feds responded quite clearly. The federal Minister of Transport hasn't managed to find time for a preliminary meeting; in fact, she's rescheduled 3 times. It's pretty damn clear they don't intend to even begin a discussion until after the deadline has past.

They should be deep into negotiating the main blocks of the contract (who covers which part of the process, insurance, going over budget, etc.); not still at the introductions stage.

 

[Electrify]

Relevant

[video=youtube;WpE_xMRiCLE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpE_xMRiCLE[/video]

 

[M II A II R II K]

To make a long story short, they wouldn't be able to arrange a piss up in the brewery.

 

[BurlOak]

It appears that Minister Murray was just joking about a 2 station extension. Maybe it will be 3 or 4.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/0...a-few-more-stops-on-that-proposed-subway-map/

I wonder how far they could have got on the "City" proposed subway route if they used cut-and-cover instead of tunnelled (TBM). If they could do $200M /km, that would basically make it to Sheppard.