Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

[junctionist]

Since Kennedy Station will have to be rebuilt with most of the transit expansion plans, Metrolinx should aim to have impressive architecture for one of the most important stations in the system.

 

[kEiThZ]

Only in Scarborough are people wanting subways and expecting others to pay for it. It's not a "Toronto" issue, if polls are to be believed.

AoD

Really? And this goes to the root of the problem of why Scarberians feel isolated. When it comes time to pay up it's a "Scarborough" problem, not a Toronto problem? How come when the Sheppard subway was built or the Downsview extension was done, that it was a Toronto problem and not a North York problem?

Thankfully, that seething anger is finally paying off and this subway will settle the issue once and for all.

 

[kEiThZ]

Is it absolutely vital to have an Ellesmere and Midland stop on the line to better service those under incommed areas, since this approximates the same route. Although shame about the lack of Sheppard connection.

I don't think this is a terrible plan. It seems weird that this proposal removes Ellesmere, Midland and McCowan stations but these stations are all REALLY underused. Much better than the Miller plan which makes the SRT conversion/extension dependent on the Sheppard LRT, which is so bizarre that I swear that this was done solely to force the widely hated Sheppard LRT to be built.

Have you seen riderships at those stops? And most of it by buses that could reach Lawrence or STC in an extra few minutes. No heartbreak over losing those stops.

 

[Solid Snake]

Further proof that Murray is an arrogant and despicable politician

When I suggested to him that there is plenty of money for the full subway extension considering the billions of dollars his party has frittered away on e-Health, Ornge, the gas plants and various and sundry government excesses I am discovering every day, he was not amused.

“Right now I’ll put a dime on the table ... that’s more money than the city is,” he said.

Then he added: “I do think we’ve been remarkably clear and transparent on all of those files.”

With answers like that, I suspect Murray, Wynne and their Liberal colleagues have already more than taken the residents of Scarborough for a ride.

And it’s not on rapid transit.

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/09/04/scarborough-residents-being-taken-for-a-ride

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

In contrast to one that talks about how important subways are but would rather reduce the land transfer tax and vehicle registration tax while having lunch on someone elses' tax dollars? Let's not even go to the "there is so much gravy" part that didn't quite deliver.

Keithz:

Really? And this goes to the root of the problem of why Scarberians feel isolated. When it comes time to pay up it's a "Scarborough" problem, not a Toronto problem? How come when the Sheppard subway was built or the Downsview extension was done, that it was a Toronto problem and not a North York problem?

Well, if I recalled correctly, the polls showed the support for any additional revenue sources to support this extension and expand transit in general is simply absent in Scarborough. Funny how when one build subways, it is a "city problem" but gawd forbid, we should be talking about having to raise money for it. When it comes time to pay up, Scarborough (and by extension, most of the burbs) are the unwilling partner here.

And beyond that, as bad as a choice SRT was as an orphaned technology, let's not act as if it wasn't an investment. If the goal was to truly isolate Scarborough, one could have avoided even giving them that and let them stew like Northern Etobicoke did.

Thankfully, that seething anger is finally paying off and this subway will settle the issue once and for all.

And then what, transit will suddenly become adequate and acceptable in Toronto and we don't need to put any additional resources into it?

AoD

 

[M II A II R II K]

At Doors Open we could visit Ghost Ellesmere stop, even though it's pretty much like that to start off with.

 

[Tulse]

Further proof that Murray is an arrogant and despicable politician

So it's arrogant and despicable to pay the full freight for a city's mass transit project? One that the city itself has been remarkably unwilling to fund? Really?

I thought "conservatives" were all about personal and fiscal responsibility -- Ford's position on this shows neither.

 

[datamouse]

It's awkward when Steve Munro agrees partly with me.

Murray’s claim that Toronto has no money on the table does not square with council’s July commitment to a property tax increase to help pay for a Scarborough subway—although the amount of that increase was based on the provincial and federal government contributing more to the project than they are willing. As for Ottawa, the complaint might be more valid if they make no commitment in time for the October council debate, but in early September, Murray can only pout that the Tories won’t answer his phone calls.

http://torontoist.com/2013/09/how-not-to-announce-a-subway/

 

[Ansem]

Wow...

Just wow...

To think I had gave up hope on Toronto getting a world class network but now this city is beyond saving...

I never thought I would say that but Quebec politics on public transit is way better than in Ontario.
-The blue line, orange line and green line will get extended

along with a LRT on the Champlain Bridge to the south shore
http://www.amt.qc.ca/docs/pdf/slr/SLR_Studies_report.pdf

 

[kEiThZ]

I'm hoping that this leads to a few other decisions in due course:

1) Convert Sheppard Subway to LRT
2) Add Sheppard LRT branches to SC and Malvern
3) Build a 5km at-surface Progress LRT or BRT to serve Centennial College and Malvern.

 

[Solid Snake]

So it's arrogant and despicable to pay the full freight for a city's mass transit project? One that the city itself has been remarkably unwilling to fund? Really?

I thought "conservatives" were all about personal and fiscal responsibility -- Ford's position on this shows neither.

It is,

He took shoots at the city and the Feds knowing full well that
A) the city was willing to increase property tax to pay their share of the costs

B)Ignoring that this project could qualify for Canada's Infrastructure program where the Feds could pay for a third. They had a Sept.30th deadline and the Feds responded to Murray's imbecile rants against the Feds by calling the whole thing "counter-productive" and they were going to respond by Sept 30th

The idiots and his corrupted party just wanted to score cheap political points

 

[Solid Snake]

In contrast to one that talks about how important subways are but would rather reduce the land transfer tax and vehicle registration tax while having lunch on someone elses' tax dollars? Let's not even go to the "there is so much gravy" part that didn't quite deliver.

Building subways was always on the Province task list. The gravy train was never meant to build subways.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Solid Snake:

Actually, building transit (not subways per se) is always on the the current government's task list - cutting gravy and building subways is on that of his worships'. It really interesting to see where one's true priorities are by the way they allocate resources, I suppose.

AoD

 

[Tulse]

the city was willing to increase property tax to pay their share of the costs

"Their share"? Do you mean a third of the costs? Or do you mean that they expect the province and feds to foot almost all the bill and kick whatever small change they get from a tiny tax increase?

The city has almost no skin in the game whatever. The province has real money promised for the project (actually, promised for a different project, but they're willing to let the city dither and fritter away time while making up their minds).

I'm no fan of the provincial Liberals, and I completely agree that they have been profligate with the province's money. But the city has been profligate with the city's time on the transit issue, while refusing to be grown ups and actually realize that real transit costs real money. Ford wants subways that someone else pays for, and that is neither personally nor fiscally responsible.

 

[kEiThZ]

I agree with the shots at the city. But I think it's undiplomatic to go after the Feds before they've responded. Particularly with the wording Murray used.

He could have said something to the effect that more fed funds would add stations and left it at that.