Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

[BurlOak]

I have a feeling the next step is to extend the Sheppard Subway to Vic Park (maybe even Warden), then run BRT to STC via McCowan. Right now the LRT yard will cost $300 million and was to house both LRTs from Scarborough line (main resident) and Sheppard. Now there are no Scarb LRT, the LRT yard will be kind of a waste. Having a BRT from Vic Park to STC (follow the route of the popular 190), esp with the new Artic buses will make sense.

Cancelling the Conlins Yard is one of the priorities for transit in Toronto.

 

[CapitalSeven]

I'm with those who think this is more a strategy than an actual plan. Surely no one who worked on the design could think it makes any sense. But the Province is probably willing to go through with it if that's what the good folk of Scarborough want, most of city council is too craven or too meretricious to call it for the garbage it is, and the mayor clearly doesn't understand it in the least.

I can almost hear the cynical thoughts in Glen Murray's head, but who can blame him? It reminds me of the time I heard a federal minister's press secretary begin outlining a strategy with the words, "I'm going to shove it up his @$$, and the way I'm going to shove it up his @$$ is this..." Built or unbuilt Rob Frod is going to end up wearing this line (internally) the way Lastman wears Sheppard.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

How about option #4. Connect the SRT to an elevated Eglintion LRT through Scarborough. This has all the benefits of the above options for a cost of a few hundred million. Why this has never been considered is beyond me.

Haha. Ha. We're not trying to build a proper transit network or anything. We are trying to win votes. In the ridiculous scenario that we were trying to build a proper transit network, we'd spend a few hundred million to elevate Eglinton.

But seriously, I hope someone in a position of power says, "hey, for only $300 Million we could not totally screw up this project". That's a rough cost estimate, assuming costs of $41 million/km with portal at Leslie.

 

[gweed123]

Unless Ford has been wounded politically far more than he appears, I don't see that happening. He is all-in against an LRT, and he and his cronies would prefer nothing to that solution. I don't know if the rest of council, many of whom jumped on the subways for Scarborough bandwagon, will now be able to reverse course in the face of Ford's intransigence.

I don't think that many of those swing votes (the ones who voted LRT the 1st time and subway the next) will have much trouble flipping back to the LRT in light of the bad plan as well as the non-arriving funds from the feds. It will only be the hardcore Fordites on council that will stick with the subway option.

You truly believed that the province all along was trying to force the city into the LRT plan? So a politically astute Minister of the government made a pre by-election speach saying that anything other than subways was declaring the people as "second class" knowing that his plan was to deliver to those people something other than subways and knowing that shortly after that (in political terms) he would have to face those same people in a general election knowing his opponents would remind the people of Scarborough that the Minister thinks they are second class?

I am no Glenn Murray fan but I think he is way, way, smarter than that.

The Province didn't want Council to change it in the first place. But when they did, it was better politically for them to go with it than try and fight it. It's much more beneficial for them to simply say "ok, we'll go with it, subway away!", knowing full well the additional funding wouldn't be coming. And even if by some miracle it did, they would still be on the right side of it.

And when it of course doesn't come through and everything comes crashing down, it comes crashing down at Council and Ford's feet, not at the Province's. Those comments about 2nd class citizens was elections talk, that I don't think will really be remembered come next election. And even if it does, you can easily spin that away by saying "We are working hard to reduce the deficit, and as a result weren't in the position to offer anything more than the $1.4 billion we already had allocated. The City of Toronto was counting on funding from other levels of government in order to complete the funding for the project. The CITY OF TORONTO was not able to secure this funding, so we had no choice but to return to the previously-funded LRT project."

It seems that Mr. Ford has called your bluff by supporting option #2. Karen Stintz seemed to still be holding out for option #1.

How about option #4. Connect the SRT to an elevated Eglintion LRT through Scarborough. This has all the benefits of the above options for a cost of a few hundred million. Why this has never been considered is beyond me.

It'll be interesting to see how Ford's support for that plays out. As I mentioned above though, it's the handful of councillors who started out voting LRT, then voted subway that really matter for this next vote. If they flip back, it doesn't matter very much what Ford says.

And yes, your Option #4 that would be my #1 preferred option. I can't even count how many times I've voiced my support for that option, haha. Unfortunately, it makes too much sense and therefore will never be put on the table.

I too think this is brilliant. This is a win-win situation for the provincial government. Honestly I think the Scarborough residents will be pleased by this for the most part, at least through the next election.

Why? It's a matter optics. They didn't want LRT, and the hail-mary subway plan didn't seem like it was going to fly. So now, the provincial government flies in and says "We'll build the damn thing ourselves because you guys just can't get your assets together." The LRT plan is still off the table so the option is just to build the subway in your option 2, or somehow there will be extra money brought in for your option 1 above, and the provincial government gets to claim it was they that pushed them to get that money.

Yup. Either way the Province will get some great talking points out of this come the next election. They tried to get a subway to Scarborough, but council flip-flopped, again.

 

[Electrify]

It seems that Mr. Ford has called your bluff by supporting option #2. Karen Stintz seemed to still be holding out for option #1.

How about option #4. Connect the SRT to an elevated Eglintion LRT through Scarborough. This has all the benefits of the above options for a cost of a few hundred million. Why this has never been considered is beyond me.

Wasn't that Ford's original plan? Though underground instead of elevated. I think the reason why they don't want to do this is because they fear it will overcrowd the Yonge line at Eglinton, forcing them to not only build a DRL, but build it north to Eglinton.

I also wouldn't be too confident that the province has no intentions of building this plan. The Liberals campaigned on a subway, and with the city unwilling to pay the cost difference, this is the most subway the province can deliver.

Think of it like a child wanting a PS4, with the parent saying that you can have one, if you do extra chores. The child refuses, so the parent decides to get them one but with no games to actually play on it.

 

[Eug]

Think of it like a child wanting a PS4, with the parent saying that you can have one, if you do extra chores. The child refuses, so the parent decides to get them one but with no games to actually play on it.

Yeah, but it's easy to buy games incrementally over time. It's much harder to build stations incrementally over time if the line is already built, although I suppose it's possible.

 

[M II A II R II K]

Another crucial element would be a rebuilt STC bus bay as well to take more busses and have more efficient entry and exit apertures to the new terminal and that those private lanes exclusively for busses enter the main roadways at convenient traffic locations. Unlike that crappy intersection where the Ellesmere bus gets stuck at those lights when going east.

 

[innsertnamehere]

building additional stations has been done, and there is currently still a station that "needs to be built" North York Centre station was added after the line opened, and there is a missing station on the Sheppard Line. (Willowdale)

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Unless Ford has been wounded politically far more than he appears, I don't see that happening. He is all-in against an LRT, and he and his cronies would prefer nothing to that solution. I don't know if the rest of council, many of whom jumped on the subways for Scarborough bandwagon, will now be able to reverse course in the face of Ford's intransigence.

I'm not too worried about Ford. If you believe the rumblings coming out of city hall, Ford will have his hands tied with some... personal issues in the coming weeks.

Anyways, listen to this gem:

@reporterdonpeat:
The audio of Mayor Rob Ford's "Subways, subways, subways! Scarborough, Scarborough, Scarborough!" battle cry http://ow.ly/22ewu4 #TOpoli

[video]https://soundcloud.com/don-peat/mayor-rob-ford-on-subway/s-UtXV1[/video]

This is what transit building has degraded to in our great city.

 

[Dan416]

I'm not crazy about this alignment. I prefer the original proposed one. But I'll take this one as last resort.

That said, I don't understand why some people are calling this a one-stop subway? It's clearly two stations (Lawrence E and SCC).

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Wasn't that Ford's original plan? Though underground instead of elevated. I think the reason why they don't want to do this is because they fear it will overcrowd the Yonge line at Eglinton, forcing them to not only build a DRL, but build it north to Eglinton.

The plan was originally to have the ECLRT run on a ROW from Don Mills to Kennedy and then connect to the SRT. It was scrapped due to service reliability concerns and to shift ridership to Bloor from Yonge.

I don't think Metrolinx has an issue with an elevated structure on Eglinton Street East, as long as it's not connected to the SRT. They didn't seem too concerned about it during the subway vs. LRT debate of 2011.

Edit: I misread your comments. Didn't see that you were talking specifically about Ford. Yes, elevating was Ford's original plan.

 

[christiesplits]

Surely no one who worked on the design could think it makes any sense. But the Province is probably willing to go through with it if that's what the good folk of Scarborough want, most of city council is too craven or too meretricious to call it for the garbage it is, and the mayor clearly doesn't understand it in the least.

Summed it up perfectly.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

I'm not too worried about Ford. If you believe the rumblings coming out of city hall, Ford will have his hands tied with some... personal issues in the coming weeks.

Anyways, listen to this gem:



[video]https://soundcloud.com/don-peat/mayor-rob-ford-on-subway/s-UtXV1[/video]

This is what transit building has degraded to in our great city.

lol...

 

[BurlOak]

And when it of course doesn't come through and everything comes crashing down, it comes crashing down at Council and Ford's feet, not at the Province's. Those comments about 2nd class citizens was elections talk, that I don't think will really be remembered come next election. And even if it does, you can easily spin that away by saying "We are working hard to reduce the deficit, and as a result weren't in the position to offer anything more than the $1.4 billion we already had allocated. The City of Toronto was counting on funding from other levels of government in order to complete the funding for the project. The CITY OF TORONTO was not able to secure this funding, so we had no choice but to return to the previously-funded LRT project."

I guess everyone believes Mike Harris that he was fighting the deficit and that is why the Eglinton Subway was cancelled and there was only enough money for Sheppard. I am sure everyone here buys that logic.

 

[gweed123]

I guess everyone believes Mike Harris that he was fighting the deficit and that is why the Eglinton Subway was cancelled and there was only enough money for Sheppard. I am sure everyone here buys that logic.

Key difference: The Liberals would still be building SOMETHING in Scarborough, whether it be subway or LRT. Harris replaced the Eglinton West Subway with... nothing.

Instead of all this transit drama, wouldn't it be easier and more cost effective just to relocate Scarborough Town Centre closer to Yonge/Bloor?

I'd settle for moving it a couple blocks west so that it directly straddles the Stouffville GO line. That's where it should have been built in the 1st place. If that was the case, it would have gotten a subway extension decades ago, probably at the same time they extended the line to Kennedy.