Adjei
Senior Member
How many of Toronto's money is going into any of the LRT projects...As for Ford and his so called tax hike, I'll believe it when I see it.
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rbt
Senior Member
Well, Toronto put about $700M into vehicle purchases (delivery happening now), $150M for a new downtown storage yard (I think it was a 3 way split), and has been investing around $80M/year in track rebuilds.
The money started flowing under Miller and Ford was unable to stop it.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
that is for streetcars, not the lrt network. 100% of the funding for the LRTs is provincial, but that is because they want to maintain ownership. in the traditional 1/3,1/3,1/3 setup the city maintains ownership. (like for the Spadina subway, which was funded only 3 years before the LRT, showing that the city is willing to pay up)
rbt
Senior Member
Right, it's for the downtown Light Rail Transit (LRT) network; also known as trams and streetcars depending on your location.
Either way, cherry picking projects will get you funny answers. Toronto taxes (property, land transfer, development charges, etc.) contribute about $600M/year into TTC; $6B over the last decade (2013 dollars) and likely much more over the coming decade as maintenance costs increase.
People like to mention the lack of Toronto funding for the new LRT routes but they fail to look at the the hundreds of projects in the capital budget, most small but some large, budget which do not get split 3 ways or operations.
In the end, even with full Big Move funding, Toronto property taxes will be putting in 10's of billions over that 30 year timeline.
I would like to see the city contribute more capital to TTC projects but to say they put in nothing into TTC capital is very incorrect.
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Allandale25
Senior Member
I would love to see a map of the potential routing of the subway along the RT alignment. It would be interesting to compare options.
The Kennedy Station reconstruction option is an interesting one. If they split off from the existing track early enough, theoretically they could have B-D itself split into two branches: one going up the SRT ROW to STC and then Sheppard, and one going east along Eglinton to Kingston Rd. The Kingston Road branch would obviously come later. Now, rebuilding Kennedy opens up a whole new can of worms, but it also presents some interesting opportunities.
Another opportunity would be to use the SRT alignment up until the Gatineau Hydro corridor, and then run elevated through the corridor until McCowan, where it then goes cut and cover to STC and eventually Sheppard. This would allow for an elevated station right overtop of the Brimley & Lawrence intersection, hitting 2 major bus routes with the same station (as opposed to the current Lawrence East station that only has 1). Running through the hydro corridor means over 2km less tunnelling.
It's just too bad that the rail ROW that the subway used from Warden to Kennedy that used to extend all the way up into Malvern isn't still there. That would have been a good alignment, even if it was cut and cover like between Warden and Kennedy.
Another opportunity would be to use the SRT alignment up until the Gatineau Hydro corridor, and then run elevated through the corridor until McCowan, where it then goes cut and cover to STC and eventually Sheppard. This would allow for an elevated station right overtop of the Brimley & Lawrence intersection, hitting 2 major bus routes with the same station (as opposed to the current Lawrence East station that only has 1). Running through the hydro corridor means over 2km less tunnelling.
It's just too bad that the rail ROW that the subway used from Warden to Kennedy that used to extend all the way up into Malvern isn't still there. That would have been a good alignment, even if it was cut and cover like between Warden and Kennedy.
nfitz
Superstar
I'm not sure by what definition the new LRVs (light rail vehicles) for downtown are not for a light rail network. Ditto for the old LRVs (both the CLRVs and the ALRVs).
I think he meant the Transit City network. And I think the biggest difference is track gauge.
denfromoakvillemilton
Senior Member
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drum118
Superstar
If Toronto is what it is today with the current hydro corridor, how are you going to get power to a city 3 times that size down the road if you remove the excess land the corridors has today and turn it over to transit and traffic??
Since the city as well most other cities don't want to build power plants in them to provide more power for them and not be tie to feeder lines currently feeding power to the city, you need room to add more lines and towers. If they fail or go down, black out like 10 years ago for all or part of Toronto. Also, where is this extra power coming from and how clean is it???
If Kennedy new station was built on an angle in relationship to the tracks between Warden and most of the straight section of the tunnel, you could use the current SRT ROW from Kennedy to Ellesmere, At this point you could split the line with one going north to Steeles and the other following the plan LRT line to Malvin, but will required rebuilding the existing line including the tunnel.
Rebuilding Kennedy station would only see about a 6 months shut down to make the new connection to the exist tunnel just before the current Kennedy station once the station is ready to open.
This will require a lot more money than what on the table as well being asked for.
I still say build the plan LRT and allow for branch lines that were thought about in the 70's and 80's as it will give you the biggest bang for the buck as well offering more service to Scarborough.
Doing an LRT split at Ellesmere has a few issues to do it, but can be overcome.
Since the city as well most other cities don't want to build power plants in them to provide more power for them and not be tie to feeder lines currently feeding power to the city, you need room to add more lines and towers. If they fail or go down, black out like 10 years ago for all or part of Toronto. Also, where is this extra power coming from and how clean is it???
If Kennedy new station was built on an angle in relationship to the tracks between Warden and most of the straight section of the tunnel, you could use the current SRT ROW from Kennedy to Ellesmere, At this point you could split the line with one going north to Steeles and the other following the plan LRT line to Malvin, but will required rebuilding the existing line including the tunnel.
Rebuilding Kennedy station would only see about a 6 months shut down to make the new connection to the exist tunnel just before the current Kennedy station once the station is ready to open.
This will require a lot more money than what on the table as well being asked for.
I still say build the plan LRT and allow for branch lines that were thought about in the 70's and 80's as it will give you the biggest bang for the buck as well offering more service to Scarborough.
Doing an LRT split at Ellesmere has a few issues to do it, but can be overcome.
rbt
Senior Member
This specific place is a little odd. It's a broad area next to a transfer stations. Lines run east/west and north/south but at the transfer station the north/south lines veer a little east, and the east/west lines veer north to connect to the station. This leaves a gap immediately next to the tracks which ought to be enough space for holding 6 trains and a small service building. It would not be suitable for any regular development.
The corridors themselves would not need to be impacted.
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BurlOak
Senior Member
Phase 1: I figure elevating Eglinton is pretty much mandatory and the cost would be about $300M to $400M on top of the LRT plan. Add another $300M to extend the SRT to Malvern and not stop one station from the end.
Phase 2: To have a branch of the line continue north parallel to Kennedy, the corridor is not wide enough. 2 tracks would be needed for GO and 2 for the LRT. From Sheppard to Finch it is very residential (single family) so I will assume for now that it would only go up to Sheppard. That is about 2km and the line would have to be elevated, going over Progress and the 401. Lets say another $300M to $400M for this.
Phase 3: To have a line go from Agincourt to U of T Scarborough would require say $200M for an interchange to facilitate the Southbound to Eastbound and Westbound to Northbound movements. It would also require about 4km of elevated track @150M/km to get to U of T ($600M). This line would be about $800M total.
In total, these would add up to $1.8B - probably similar (if you use a high estimate) to the extra required to bring the B-D subway up McCowan to Sheppard. It can also be done in stages so the extra needed now is just the $300M to $400M to elevate the Eglinton LRT, which has immediate benefits and also keeps all options open for the future.
historydude2012
New Member
I feel like I read somewhere today that there was some kind of community discussion comparing the two options (LRT vs Subway) planned within the next few weeks. Anyways, for the life of me I can't find any kind of link for this I just feel like I read it somewhere. If anyone can point out a link for it I'd be grateful. Otherwise just consider this message the ravings of a madman hehe 
datamouse
Active Member
Can't really help you but someone told me the same thing but I know as much as you do. At least now you know you aren't imagining things.I feel like I read somewhere today that there was some kind of community discussion comparing the two options (LRT vs Subway) planned within the next few weeks. Anyways, for the life of me I can't find any kind of link for this I just feel like I read it somewhere. If anyone can point out a link for it I'd be grateful. Otherwise just consider this message the ravings of a madman hehe
historydude2012
New Member
At least I now know I'm not the only one who read something about it. I still have no idea where I read it.