salsa
Senior Member
And predictably, it's quickly turning into another shit show. I'm out.Cue the LRT vs Subway discussion
And predictably, it's quickly turning into another shit show. I'm out.Cue the LRT vs Subway discussion
Scarborough felt they "deserved" a subway, and got their wish...but be careful what you wish for...
Scarborough could realistically be on the bus for a decade or more. Was this all worth it? Idk
I can't imagine they will be for that long; maybe a few years max. The annoying thing about all of it was that this "bus avoidance" argument was pushed to avoid consideration of the existing alignment.
AoD
Notably Tory never stated when exactly the SRT would shut down. This makes me think that it’s sooner than the previously anticipated 2026 end of life. Maybe 2023 or 2024 is on the table. Pure speculation of course.
The SSE is scheduled to open 2029, but knowing how things go in this town, a delay to 2031 to 2033 would hardly be remarkable.
Basically a three year shutdown is the absolute best case scenario right now (2026 to 2029). The reasonable worst case scenario is around 10 years (if the subway is further delayed and the SSE shuts down sooner than previously expected). Obviously neither case is remotely acceptable.
North York has 20 km of subway lines while Scarborough has only 5 km of subway. Scarborough is only slightly lesser in population (630,000) compared to North York (870,000). Even with SSE, Scarborough will have less subway per capita.Scarborough felt they "deserved" a subway, and got their wish...but be careful what you wish for...
North York has 20 km of subway lines while Scarborough has only 5 km of subway. Scarborough is only slightly lesser in population (630,000) compared to North York (870,000). Even with SSE, Scarborough will have less subway per capita.
Not only that, Scarborough has only 1 highway passing through it while North York has 4. Even Etobicoke with half as much population has 4 freeways.
But somehow a few people in this forum look down upon Scarborough sitting on their thrones as if Scarborough doesn't matter at all in the grand scheme of things.
PS - I don't live in Scarborough but I can certainly sense some people's hate for Scarborough.
Scarborough's transit ridership (>400 K PPD) is higher than all of Peel Region's (~220 K PPD) though so this is kind of a moot point.Not to argue that there isn't a transit/transportation issue in Scarborough, but the whole "subway mileage per capita" argument is questionable. I don't live in the City of Toronto proper - but in Peel which had a population larger than North York. Zero subway, one BRT with a fairly pathetic daily ridership and one LRT under construction (value-engineered to fit the budget by the Ford government, certainly nothing deep bored; loop/stations were cut). Should I agitate (as some did last election - using precisely the same rationale) for a subway line with mileage similar to either - especially now that this line is paid for provincially - because subways are about "whether one matters"? You see where I am going with this? Also - if I want to play this "mileage" game, wouldn't it make sense to maximize the amount of subway with a certain amount of cash, instead of building an extension with no net gain in the number of rapid transit stations?
AoD
Scarborough's transit ridership (>400 K PPD) is higher than all of Peel Region's (~220 K PPD) though so this is kind of a moot point.
Scarborough's transit ridership (>400 K PPD) is higher than all of Peel Region's (~220 K PPD) though so this is kind of a moot point.
Unfortunately, the fact that so little has been achieved on SSE since 2014 is John Tory's fault. Not the Ford nations', and not the lefty groups'.
Tory had the administrative power, the popularity, and the provincial and federal funding commitments; he certainly was in the position to combine all of that and put showels in the ground by now. But he didn't.
My view of Tory's governance is positive overall. He can handle the everyday matters with both common sense and proper decorum. He has been reasonable and helpful in the Covid response. He isn't too bad for transit; either. ECLRT and Finch West construction, although started before his term, are progressing well because he shields them from the political meddling. Add the enhanced express buses, the King corridor, the new bike lanes, and the glass is more than half full.
But wherever active leadership is required, as opposed to just overseeing the natural developments, John Tory isn't impressive at all. Smarttrack? SSE? Waterfront East LRT? Each of those projects is conceptually supported by Tory, and yet, very little progress has been made.
His position is basically try to keep the property taxes in line - capital heavy projects of this sort by default requires either raising funds through a levy (e.g. like the special fund for SSE, even then covering only about 1/3 of the cost) or taking on and servicing additional debt. I doubt his council (particularly the councilors he had aligned himself, and depended support from) will go for that. Remember the good old "subways, but no new taxes" mantra of the late Rob Ford? Those same attitudes are still there in council. Also, you are assuming that the Province and the Feds don't have agenda of their own and can be pushed around - he ain't Hazel.
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