Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

[sixrings]

The opening date can easily slip to 2035 or so. But the loss of the Sheppard station is hardly possible if they are building the launch shaft at Sheppard and starting the tunneling from there.

Well whose to say they don't reverse course knowing full well once they start they intend to cancel once they get to stc. Nothing is in the ground yet.

 

[syn]

Hey I'm an advocate for Eglinton west to be surface level. It isn't my wish to bury everything. Congrats on being a contrarian. Some contrarians just like to do the opposite since it makes them feel that they are somehow thinking for themselves. All the experts are saying one thing. Damn it they must be wrong.

I haven't seen many, if any, crazy arguments in favour of putting the Eglinton West LRT underground. I could have missed these posts, of course, but I haven't seen any arguments that the citizens of Eglinton West 'deserve' underground transit, etc.

People, for whatever reason, take the SSE personally. The Fords have done a great job of stoking an 'us vs them' mentality. Now the SSE is viewed as a project that will show Scarborough 'respect' and transform the city, even though the problems most people have (a lack of rapid transit access) will remain.

Data, cost increases and expert analysis don't seem to matter.

 

[sixrings]

I haven't seen many, if any, crazy arguments in favour of putting the Eglinton West LRT underground. I could have missed these posts, of course, but I haven't seen any arguments that the citizens of Eglinton West 'deserve' underground transit, etc.

People, for whatever reason, take the SSE personally. The Fords have done a great job of stoking an 'us vs them' mentality. Now the SSE is viewed as a project that will show Scarborough 'respect' and transform the city, even though the problems most people have (a lack of rapid transit access) will remain.

Data, cost increases and expert analysis don't seem to matter.

Syn I looked around today to see how to delete my profile. I'm not tech and couldn't figure it out. Yet I don't have the self control not to mock transit building for the sake of respect. If I disappear keep up the good fight knowing I'm living a more sane life biking and drinking Starbucks reading the Toronto Star instead of urbantoronto. Peace be with you.

 

[JSF-1]

Traditionally the TTC contracts the station and the tunnel together. ML does tunnels separately then the stations two years later.

But even then look at the Crosstown, its an ML project yet assuming it opens in 2022 it will have taken 10 years to build a 19 kilometer line of which 10 or so is underground. Why will it take the same amount of time to build a line that is only 7 kilometers? If you told me the OL would take 10 years to build I would agree considering the line is longer and has far more complicated construction due to the nature of the route it traverses. Yet the SSE taking 10 years when for all intents and purposes its route is straight and wide open minus the ravine at Lawrence is not only crazy but says to me that the Province and ML have some shenanigans going on with this project. I apologize if I sound skeptical but when I see the timeline increase from 5 to 10 years all of a sudden I need to ask what the hell is going on.

 

[OneCity]

.

After 10 years you would think the LRT crowd would have changed their tactics. Instead of proposing something reasonable, they continually revert back to the David Miller plan, in some type of loyalty to the most socialist Mayor the city has had.
If at some time during the past 10 years they would have made reasonable compromises - perhaps we would have achieved something better.
Instead, the other side had to look for any alternative that they could in order to connect Scarborough to the core.
When subway was the only one that could stick - I understand why the reluctance of the subway crowd to not move away.
Continued insistance on the transfer LRT just got the subway crowd to dig in their heels.
Essentially, all sides are responsible for this overpriced fiasco.

Same nonsense for decades out of this tiny shady 'grassroots' group and their union group partners with their uncompromising transfer LRT promotion and usual anti conservative shtick to act as the voice of Scarborough residents

You can copy and paste a similar articles from Metroland and their ground level political promoters over the decade. 99% of Scarborough Politicians and all relevant leaders have moved on but this City dividing NDP sham political group still gets to seem relevant. The most divisive Councillors from outisde Scarborough loved this group. Really is such a good look on them to see they are still carrying on while the current government added stops in and is moving on and im so very glad this level of political trouble-making influence has finally been completely removed.

I mean there is no other area in the GTA has to deal with the amount of garbage uncompromising politics and disrespect of their true democratic vote like Scarborough has. This is the crap that only continues to fuel the over the top extreme narratives we still see here.n UT.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Your example is just bad. We totally can afford SSE, and its cost doesn't even stand out of the total transit bill currnelty on the table.

Not a single dollar is being stolen for SSE. Three levels of democratically elected governments made a decision to pool their legally collected / legally borrowed resources to get this project built.

Whether you like it or not, this is how the public administration works. Otherwise, anyone who dislikes a particular government program would claim that the funding for that program is being "stolen".

6.6 billion or whatnot stands out and not the best reasons either.

SSE results aren't shitty by any account. 11,000 pphpd at peak is a pretty decent number.

No I don't live anywhere near the SSE route. It wouldn't bring subway next to my door, nor will it shorten my bus ride to the closest subway station. I observe a gigantic anti-Scarborough bias displayed by a number of posters, and that bias needs to be countered. That's my main motivation for posting in this thread.

The Eglinton West example has been given to highlight that bias. The Eglinton West counts are actually shitty, and you don't disagree with that. And yet, all your sarcastic passion is firmly glued to the SSE project, despite its counts being much better.

Let's not assume people who are against Scarborough are for the Crosstown West being buried. That project is even worse, because it's solely to keep Ford happy. If this project was above ground, no one would be complaining as much. Same with Eglinton West.

 

[Steve X]

Let's not assume people who are against Scarborough are for the Crosstown West being buried. That project is even worse, because it's solely to keep Ford happy. If this project was above ground, no one would be complaining as much. Same with Eglinton West.

Except you're wrong, most of Etobicoke were complaining about the project being on the surface. The first open house was pretty heated with 500 people showing up booing the presentation on not supporting grade separation. Q&A sessions turn into attacking the planners for not burying the line. The MPP of the time were calling people to tell them the city planners were making a terrible decisions were the city councillors and Tory telling the city planners to go back to the drawing board.

The problem with this city is being on the extreme side of things. They choose either all on the surface or all underground. Can't they just have a mix? Bury only the trouble spots.

 

[syn]

Syn I looked around today to see how to delete my profile. I'm not tech and couldn't figure it out. Yet I don't have the self control not to mock transit building for the sake of respect. If I disappear keep up the good fight knowing I'm living a more sane life biking and drinking Starbucks reading the Toronto Star instead of urbantoronto. Peace be with you.

I'm sorry to hear that sixrings! I hope you'll stick around. Your point of view is very valuable.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Except you're wrong, most of Etobicoke were complaining about the project being on the surface. The first open house was pretty heated with 500 people showing up booing the presentation on not supporting grade separation. Q&A sessions turn into attacking the planners for not burying the line. The MPP of the time were calling people to tell them the city planners were making a terrible decisions were the city councillors and Tory telling the city planners to go back to the drawing board.

The problem with this city is being on the extreme side of things. They choose either all on the surface or all underground. Can't they just have a mix? Bury only the trouble spots.

I was trying to be diplomatic and not attack any communities, but your right. I just don't think the density is justified on Eglinton West for full burial anywhere.

 

[W. K. Lis]

I was trying to be diplomatic and not attack any communities, but your right. I just don't think the density is justified on Eglinton West for full burial anywhere.

Here's the "justification" for burial of Eglinton West...

From link.

He must not be able to see any plebeians as he drives by (or actually them passing him) in his SUV.

 

[urbanyimby]

Most likely to announce the release of the TBM contract RFQ


Premier Ford to Make an Announcement

March 9, 2020 2:30 P.M.
Office of the Premier

Premier Doug Ford will be joined by Caroline Mulroney, Minister of Transportation, Kinga Surma, Associate Minister of Transportation (GTA), Laurie Scott, Minister of Infrastructure, Raymond Cho, MPP for Scarborough North, Aris Babikian, MPP for Scarborough—Agincourt, and Vijay Thanigasalam, MPP for Scarborough—Rouge Park, to make an announcement.

Date:	Tuesday, March 10, 2020
Time:	Remarks at 8:30 a.m. Media asked to arrive by 8:15 a.m.
Location:	Ministry of Transportation - Maintenance Garage 2064 Kennedy Road Scarborough, ON M1T 3V1
Parking:	Parking available on site.
Livestream:	Premier's official YouTube channel
Note:	Accredited media only. Media availability following the event.

 

[Allandale25]

^ Guess they aren't waiting for the 40% from the federal government (it's noted in this news release from today). Although it's just a RFQ so I guess they don't actually need the money until the RFP is closed, the bids are in, and the Province has the quotes from the bidders. Even then, I think federal funding is usually given when receipts are provided so maybe they would press on and not wait for official word.

 

[Coolstar]

Most likely to announce the release of the TBM contract RFQ


Premier Ford to Make an Announcement

March 9, 2020 2:30 P.M.
Office of the Premier

Premier Doug Ford will be joined by Caroline Mulroney, Minister of Transportation, Kinga Surma, Associate Minister of Transportation (GTA), Laurie Scott, Minister of Infrastructure, Raymond Cho, MPP for Scarborough North, Aris Babikian, MPP for Scarborough—Agincourt, and Vijay Thanigasalam, MPP for Scarborough—Rouge Park, to make an announcement.

Date:	Tuesday, March 10, 2020
Time:	Remarks at 8:30 a.m. Media asked to arrive by 8:15 a.m.
Location:	Ministry of Transportation - Maintenance Garage 2064 Kennedy Road Scarborough, ON M1T 3V1
Parking:	Parking available on site.
Livestream:	Premier's official YouTube channel
Note:	Accredited media only. Media availability following the event.

Maybe these people suddenly had the sense to realize how expensive this project is. And decided to replace it with something.

 

[BurlOak]

Many of these ideas came about assuming:
at-grade LRT = $75M/km (~80m stations/stops)
elevated = $150M/km (~80-100m stations)
cut-and-cover = $300M/km (~150m stations)
tunneled = $400M/km. (~150m stations)

Instead, we are looking at $750M/km - and that's for a sparse 3 stations on 7.5km. ($5.7B total)
On Eglinton, we are looking at $500M/km for something that's 20% elevated ($4.7B total for the 9.2km to the border of YYZ).

Why are prices twice what were expected? Maybe let's hope for recession for prices to be lower.
It's a good thing federal and provincially we did our best to be at a balanced budget (?), to allow for increasing spending if things do go sour.

 

[Rainforest]

Except you're wrong, most of Etobicoke were complaining about the project being on the surface. The first open house was pretty heated with 500 people showing up booing the presentation on not supporting grade separation. Q&A sessions turn into attacking the planners for not burying the line. The MPP of the time were calling people to tell them the city planners were making a terrible decisions were the city councillors and Tory telling the city planners to go back to the drawing board.

That kind of surprises me. Looking at two other comparable projects:

1) ECLRT between Leslie and Kennedy. That section is almost entirely at the surface level, yet I didn't hear any complains about that. The residents complained when Metrolinx considered dropping the Leslie and Ferrand stops. The stops were retained, resulting in less tunneling, and noone complained about that since.

2) Finch LRT through the northern Etobicoke. Runs at the surface level, only the termini being underground. Mammo was complaining when he was a councillor, and he ran a one-man show. Once Mammo got turfed by the Ford's council size cut, noone else has any problems with the surface line.

So, residents appear to be content with the surface LRT in those two cases. Are the central Etobicoke folks different?