Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

[OneCity]

Please read.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toro...eir-system-and-what-needs-to-change-1.4982467

Refreshing to read a balanced non agenda driven article or once.

Further studies are the last thing we need at this stage, Id rather see the one stop subway built before excessive delay. And that's far from an endorsement for the planning lunacy of an underground line that had its stops stripped away. Thankfully that shouldn't be an issue again

 

[syn]

Please read.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toro...eir-system-and-what-needs-to-change-1.4982467

Interesting that only one person was in support of the one stop extension.

Another actually wants them to extend the RT.

Generally speaking, it doesn't seem like Light Rail would be a disastrous result for any of these people.

I'm sure they'll be wishing they had it when the privately funded subway doesn't happen.

 

[BurlOak]

Interesting that only one person was in support of the one stop extension.

Another actually wants them to extend the RT.

Generally speaking, it doesn't seem like Light Rail would be a disastrous result for any of these people.

I'm sure they'll be wishing they had it when the privately funded subway doesn't happen.

If only we could go back to the Eglinton-Scarborough Crosstown.
--- http://urbantoronto.ca/sites/defaul...cles/2012/02/4920/urbantoronto-4920-14993.jpg
There was relative transit peace, with all of Scarborough on board. It was also supported by transit experts.
--- http://www.metrolinx.com/en/regiona...itscases/Benefits_Case-Eglinton_Crosstown.pdf
Small modifications were suggested by some other knowledgeable people to reduce costs and/or improve service.
--- https://skytrainforsurrey.org/2012/...uing-this-technology-and-not-lrt-on-eglinton/
--- http://www.neptis.org/publications/.../solution-scarborough-impasse-scarborough-wye
The general public doesn't even know how much better this could have been, because unfortunately Metrolinx hid the positive reports from City Council during their deliberations. "Subway champion" Mitzi Hunter and the Liberals completely removed all other options from the table and turned it into a Transfer LRT vs. B-D subway extension debate.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

It will indeed be interesting to see if the Province can put its money where its mouth is considering todays TTC report shows that the subway is in need of $18 Billion in investment over the next 14 years (about $1.2 Billion per year). With the upload this bill will fall squarely on the Province. If the Province is serious about taking over the Subway they better accept the fact it won't be cheap.

They’ll upload the subway and still make Toronto pay the bills. I’ve yet to hear QP talk about TTC SOGR, but they have talked about subways to Pickering. The Province of Ontario has no interest in Toronto’s subways, unless it can be used to dangle shiny new gifts to voters and party doners.

 

[pstogios]

Please read.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toro...eir-system-and-what-needs-to-change-1.4982467

Bruce McRae, self-employed bookkeeper
I don't know if a [subway] would be helpful or not, but I want them to do a case study and see what is best, and take it out of the political arena — and make it based on transit usage and what makes economic sense, not looking at votes, which seems to be the way it's been done lately."

Bruce is a smart man. He has captured the entirety of the debate that has gone on for a ridiculous 1014 pages here.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Problem is that everyone claims to be doing what Bruce suggests already

 

[sixrings]

I'm just happy I exiled myself from scarborough over a decade ago. I have a great wife, a great house, a great job yet leaving Scarborough might have been my best decision. When I go grocery shopping there are no coffeys in sight.

 

[Rainforest]

Please read.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toro...eir-system-and-what-needs-to-change-1.4982467

Thanks for the post.

Based on the small set of 7 people polled, it seems the subway option has a slight edge. Of course, that could be due to the subway option having received more press coverage.

Think the subway will help: 3 people (Thomas, Osmond, Colmenar)

Want RT: 1 person (Gratton, "kind of wish the Scarborough RT was extended a little bit further into the Scarborough-to-Markham are", nothing said expressly about the subway).

Want better transit, but not clearly in favor of either subway or light rail: 3 people (Melendez, Adams, McRae)

 

[rbt]

Thanks for the post.

Based on the small set of 7 people polled, it seems the subway option has a slight edge. Of course, that could be due to the subway option having received more press coverage.

The subway option, without any consideration for cost, likely is the best option.

It would be nice if there were several $5B plans on the table so people weren't selecting between high dollar and low dollar options, but instead subway to SCC or LRT to Finch, or 5 minute all-day bus frequencies on all Scarborough routes.

 

[Rainforest]

The subway option, without any consideration for cost, likely is the best option.

It would be nice if there were several $5B plans on the table so people weren't selecting between high dollar and low dollar options, but instead subway to SCC or LRT to Finch, or 5 minute all-day bus frequencies on all Scarborough routes.

Very good point. On the other hand, there is no guarantee that the government (whether the province or the city council) would invest the same amount of money within the Scarborough borders if another option is selected. The funding allocation is typically project-wise rather than area-wise.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Thanks for the post.

Based on the small set of 7 people polled, it seems the subway option has a slight edge. Of course, that could be due to the subway option having received more press coverage.

Think the subway will help: 3 people (Thomas, Osmond, Colmenar)

Want RT: 1 person (Gratton, "kind of wish the Scarborough RT was extended a little bit further into the Scarborough-to-Markham are", nothing said expressly about the subway).

Want better transit, but not clearly in favor of either subway or light rail: 3 people (Melendez, Adams, McRae)

The subway option, without any consideration for cost, likely is the best option.

It would be nice if there were several $5B plans on the table so people weren't selecting between high dollar and low dollar options, but instead subway to SCC or LRT to Finch, or 5 minute all-day bus frequencies on all Scarborough routes.

I don't believe the public knows for a second what they want, other than that they want something better than today. All of the options can look attractive to the public, depending on their level of understanding of the issue, how the questions are asked, what options are on the table, etc... Of course, the public has a very poor understanding of the issue, and their perceptions are clouded by years of rhetoric from the media and politicians, so whatever the public ostensibly prefers (and keep in mind that the public will prefer different options based on the framing of the problem) has nothing to do with which option has the best technical merits.

Asking the public which option is best is almost like asking your 12-year-old for an opinion on mortgage options. Yes, they're directly impacted by the decision, but they're so hopelessly undereducated that any advice they give is effectively worthless. Ideally, living in a representative democracy should fix this problem, through allowing the public to elect learned representatives to make educated decisions on their behalf. But transit in Toronto has been so politicized, that politicians are now pandering entirely to the whims of public opinion, which the politicians themselves are directly manipulating with their rhetoric. It's a vicious cycle that ensures that any decision made in this area will have nothing to do with what is genuinely the best option.

Sometimes I wish we lived under the rule of a benevolent technocrat. But with human nature being what it is, there's no such thing as a benevolent technocrat.

 

[sixrings]

Constant disrespect to scarborough transit riders ability to comprehend information. They voted specifically against transfer city and for a city. Just because we don't go to fancy private schools doesn't mean we don't understand that subways subways subways is clearly the best answer unless you are a lefty trying to keep our monies for your own downtown subway.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Constant disrespect to scarborough transit riders ability to comprehend information. They voted specifically against transfer city and for a city. Just because we don't go to fancy private schools doesn't mean we don't understand that subways subways subways is clearly the best answer unless you are a lefty trying to keep our monies for your own downtown subway.

I get that you're being facetious, but keep in mind that I don't exclude myself from this criticism at all. Outside of my areas of training, I anticipate that my advice would be equally worthless. If Ontario politicians listened to my advice on running a hydro-electric system or paying down the debt, we'd be 100% screwed.

 

[nfitz]

Constant disrespect to scarborough transit riders ability to comprehend information. They voted specifically against transfer city and for a city. Just because we don't go to fancy private schools doesn't mean we don't understand that subways subways subways is clearly the best answer unless you are a lefty trying to keep our monies for your own downtown subway.

Given that many Scarborians voted for Doug Ford, who has now indefinitely deferred the new GO Stations in Scarborough, and who will surely only delay the planned construction start of the Line 2 extension to Scarborough Town Centre which is fully-funded in the current TTC budget, with spending of over $100 million in 2019, peaking at $551 million in 2002 - perhaps Scarborians are their own-worst enemy.

 

[sixrings]

I get that you're being facetious, but keep in mind that I don't exclude myself from this criticism at all. Outside of my areas of training, I anticipate that my advice would be equally worthless. If Ontario politicians listened to my advice on running a hydro-electric system or paying down the debt, we'd be 100% screwed.

Maybe so but if the PCs want to keep a majority then according to some here they must fulfill their subway promises or be kicked out of office since there is a line up of other parties so willing to cater to their wishes.