TRONto
Active Member
Different context. Can't apply the same rules.
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Cycling infrastructure (Separated bike lanes)
- Thread starter MetroMan
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DSC
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H4F33Z
Active Member
...that are painted, adjacent to 50-60km/h traffic.
From my experience, most bike lanes in Mississauga (and other suburban cities) were painted to slow down drivers who were going insane speeds in neighbourhoods with ridiculously wide roads
Their main intention initially was not really to encourage cycling, as can be seen from their quite outdated design which doesn't protect cyclists at all, and who'd much rather ride on the sidewalk. Also, note the still incredibly wide lanes, and no protection.
Yes, Mississauga will slowly improve but it's important to recognize that the quality and intention of bike lanes really matters on who uses the infrastructure.
A silver lining in these suburbs, are multi-use paths! These are a win-win for everyone, and sometimes as simple as widening a sidewalk or using a wide boulevard.
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cplchanb
Senior Member
Here's the kicker... in order for garbage trucks to be able to pick up the bins with the hydraulic claws they need to illegally drive up the now "wrong" side of the road since they are right side only.... Just further proof that city planning did not think this through lol
afransen
Senior Member
My point being that it is laughable to suggest bike lanes shouldn't be "that far west" when Mississauga has quite a few.
And Mississauga doesn't just have painted bicycle gutters.
Mariner35
New Member
In situations like this it is mandated that the crew should be manned with two workers to be able to move the bins to the side of the claw. Many one way streets in Toronto have collection pick up for houses on both sides or the opposite side of the street.
Bike lane here is pretty irrelevant to that.
From the sounds of it the Garbage trucks are either operating illegally so as to avoid moving the bins or aren't manned properly.
For example, Gladstone Ave south of Dundas travelling south is one way and for a stretch has 32 houses (compared to Ferrand's 36) on the left side of the street but not on the right. It also has bike lanes and the garbage trucks figure it out.
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Admiral Beez
Superstar
As long as our politicians and planners continue to see paint as the default means to denote bike lanes we will continue to see this rubbish. We don't do this with sidewalks, and instead most are default installed with hardened curbs. Here's the Ontario standards for sidewalks, for example, https://www.roadauthority.com/Standards/?id=d50435db-45c8-45f9-bd7c-d1497882ed5a
I would like to see province-wide standards for bike lanes and infrastructure updated, with the default being hardened separation on any road marked at 60 kph or faster, followed by bollards on 40-50 kph roads, with solely painted lined only permitted on 30 kph or slower. Discretion and the opportunities to cut corners, such as Mississauga running a line of paint needs to be taking away from the municipalities.
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Northern Light
Superstar
To be clear, the City does not do 'just paint' on any new install on a major road. It will always come with flexi-posts at the very least.
Also, this is not the final-build form, its the quick build form. That is to say, what can be done without rebuilding the curbs and moving the catch basins etc. That type of work generally waits for resurfacing and/or reconstruction. Reconstruction is typically every 40-60 years.
So if we wait for that, the cycling facilities will be very slow in coming.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
How many cyclists are using these painted gutters in Mississauga? I strongly support bike lanes, provided they’re separated by more than paint, but just as the best foot paths are installed once the demand shows where to put them, first comes the bikes to demonstrate demand, then the lanes to scale up that use.
OTOH, “Bike lane theatre”, where a municipality paints a line and reduces automotive space on roads with near zero bicycle use does nothing other than annoy road users and discredit the perception of bike lanes overall.
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Admiral Beez
Superstar
Why aren’t the bike lanes on the Crosstown separated? Surely a new project of this scale could have done better than painted lines?
Northern Light
Superstar
Why aren’t the bike lanes on the Crosstown separated? Surely a new project of this scale could have done better than painted lines?
The ones in the central section will be, mostly. The answer as far as the suburban ones is that these were designed back in..........the early 2010s, way before current standards were developed. There was no opportunity to improve the design for the surface sections as they were included in the P3 contract.
They will be improved at some future point...........but it could be awhile.
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Voltz
Senior Member
It was designed years ago when the big P3 contract for the line was awarded, that was how bike lanes were done then, changing the contract would be too expensive. But I do remember something about the city wanting to add curbs over the painted lines.Why aren’t the bike lanes on the Crosstown separated? Surely a new project of this scale could have done better than painted lines?
Admiral Beez
Superstar
Thanks. This reminds me of the St. Clair ROW, where the curb lanes are dedicated entirely to either off-hours parking or rush hour car traffic. As I’ve driven along St. Clair I’ve watched with trepidation as cyclists try to squeeze along beside the cars. Mind you, the entire project was a hash up.
St. Clair ROW: What Went Wrong
Forgive me because I don't know all the history behind St. Clair ROW, but everyone seems to complain about it, and say it is not an example to base Transit City on etc. What are the issues with St. Clair, what went wrong? To me, on the surface it sounds like a great idea. RoW on a busy...
There should be a rule, no streetcar ROW without a bicycle ROW.
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max
Active Member
So I think there's an issue with this protected intersection island that I don't think has been discussed here yet. As a result of Adelaide being switched to the north side of the road a conflict is created between eastbound and southbound traffic as approaching traffic is expect to bear left from the west and bear right from the north. In every other installation I've seen the cycling will always bear right in a RHD jurisdiction and left for LHD.
While I was initially happy to see this piece of infrastructure I'm now not so sure it belongs at this intersection, or any other along Adelaide. Of course traffic will still have a light to control it, so if everyone follows the law everyone should be fine. Anyway, wondering what thoughts others have?
Admiral Beez
Superstar
Come to think of it, is there any streetcar or LRT ROW in the city, in-use or planned that also has curb-separated bike lanes? The Queens Quay ROW has a "multi-use" path, which is essentially the city using doublespeak to ignore its own by-laws on cycling on the sidewalk. Make this multi-use path below a cycle dedicated track and you're on the way.
But a true curb-separated bike lane alongside a streetcar ROW? I think it's not done here - almost as if the city planners are told specifically NOT to include separated bike paths when designing streetcar and LRT ROWs.
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