News   Dec 12, 2019
 928     2 
News   Dec 12, 2019
 759     1 
News   Dec 12, 2019
 344     1 

407 Transitway

micheal_can

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Dec 24, 2016
Messages
1,519
Reaction score
787
Ridership projections for needing LRT are abnout 2051 from Metrolinx's report.

By that time, an LRT built now would need significant maintenance in the form of vehicle and track replacement, causing similar downtime to conversion to LRT.

It does not always pay to overbuild in advance, you have to consider the technology you are overbuilding with will not last forever.
So, just a reserved lane is all that is needed?
 

BMO

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Oct 17, 2008
Messages
1,587
Reaction score
314
407 Transitway should get built as a simple BRT to start. Until there is sufficiently good transit in the suburbs there is no need to overbuild an LRT. LRT is good for mid-density areas not for sprawling suburbs. The Viva BRT is overbuilt and grossly under-utilized and that likely won’t change. The Mississauga BRT is the same way. Politicians want things but don’t understand the concept of building something useful for the money spent. The rally cry to build something for the future is asburd. You build to the capacity you need based on data projections and proposed growth. I doubt these areas will grow to support LRT for the next 50-100 years. Why over build now. Build small with capability to expand later if and when needed.
Unfortunately you're living in a fantasy world. Density and built-form are a product of ever-changing government policy and market forces. Just within the last 5 years the cost of a single-detached home has vastly grown beyond attainability for even the middle class, and it's also no longer worth building in many areas in the GTHA anymore. This trend is likely to continue and as it stands high-density developments can only be built in specific areas based on zoning. While developers can push for zoning amendments, the path of least resistance is to build where the transit is. I'd respectfully bet against you. You can't just plan and address the NOW, because by the time you build it it's a sunken cost that you can't recuperate and often leads to higher costs down the road when you build what should have really been built.

I do however agree with you that we should be looking at infrastructure improvements through the lens of future investment loss risks. So you would theoretically see how well an investment performs per dollar spent based on different future scenarios that could present a risk to your investment. If you're building a subway in the suburbs, see how much of a risk that investment would be if Autonomous Vehicles become ubiquitous vs how much of a drain on the economy would it be if they didn't and you didn't build the subway? Maybe a BRT facility has a lower risk because it can easily be moulded to allow autonomous vehicles to use it if that happens, and it could also be easily changed to LRT if AVs don't take hold. We have to start thinking outside the box in how we invest money and hedge our bets on parameters we simply cannot predict.
 

Allandale25

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Oct 19, 2007
Messages
3,825
Reaction score
2,981
^ Maybe someone else can confirm but there's no funding and the new Metrolinx Regional Transportation Plan puts it into the 2040s I think?
 

gweed123

Moderator
Staff member
Member Bio
Joined
Feb 10, 2009
Messages
7,550
Reaction score
1,030
Location
Burlington
FYI, the 407 Transitway site added a segment for the Transitway between Brant Street and Winston Churchill Boulevard. This only leaves a gap between 401/427 and Hurontario/407. I'm wondering what overlap there will be with the Missing Link.
IMO the Brant-Winston Churchill section makes more sense as an extension of the Mississauga Transitway, not of the 407 Transitway. Yes, you can have 407 GO buses use it, but I think the greater utility is to connect to Square One.
 

DonValleyRainbow

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Mar 5, 2014
Messages
2,861
Reaction score
1,890
Location
Kay Gardner Beltline Trail
IMO the Brant-Winston Churchill section makes more sense as an extension of the Mississauga Transitway, not of the 407 Transitway. Yes, you can have 407 GO buses use it, but I think the greater utility is to connect to Square One.
I agree to a point; it should also be pointed out Trafalgar was earmarked as a north-south rapid transit corridor (between Milton and Oakville). Having a transitway along that segment of the 407 would be duplicative, why not merge the two?

I do see the merit in completing the network, though, and having a transitway along the 407. It goes towards better commute times between 905 communities, and getting away from a Union Station-oriented system.
 

gweed123

Moderator
Staff member
Member Bio
Joined
Feb 10, 2009
Messages
7,550
Reaction score
1,030
Location
Burlington
I agree to a point; it should also be pointed out Trafalgar was earmarked as a north-south rapid transit corridor (between Milton and Oakville). Having a transitway along that segment of the 407 would be duplicative, why not merge the two?

I do see the merit in completing the network, though, and having a transitway along the 407. It goes towards better commute times between 905 communities, and getting away from a Union Station-oriented system.
I think those two are serving a bit of a different market, though. Much like the Highway 7 Rapidway and 407 Transitway being in close proximity to each other. One is a local rapid transit line, while the other is an express rapid transit line. One is an LRT without the tracks, and the other is a GO Train line without the tracks.

But yes, I do agree that having that infrastructure would be quite valuable, and I'm not debating the merits of building it, I'm simply saying that as far as service patterns go, people from Halton are much more likely to go straight through to Square One as opposed to going up the 407 to Brampton.
 

DonValleyRainbow

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Mar 5, 2014
Messages
2,861
Reaction score
1,890
Location
Kay Gardner Beltline Trail
FYI, the 407 Transitway site added a segment for the Transitway between Brant Street and Winston Churchill Boulevard. This only leaves a gap between 401/427 and Hurontario/407. I'm wondering what overlap there will be with the Missing Link.
And so to mock me, they've updated that segment so now it extends past Winston Churchill to Hurontario. Transitway planning is now completed or underway for the entire 407.
 

Top