2018 Ontario Provincial Election Discussion

[SunriseChampion]

Bullcrap! This is the perception the average voter develops after ad nauseam unrelenting biased news coverage out to vilify the only party capable of dethroning the media darling Liberals. It's intentional to dissaude placing the Tories under consideration. Remember the Tories had a 20-point lead the day before the "scandal" broke. No one can blame the Tories for trying to iron out the kinks since it's been seemingly forever since the last time they were in power. They're rusty going up against the big red machine. Why are we holding them to these impossibly high standards when the Liberals' have been known for a while now yet excused?

Whether or not any of the drama about the PCs is of any importance is one thing, but journalists are only reporting on facts, mate.

 

[BurlOak]

The money that was supposedly squandered is a drop in the bucket of the provincial budget. As for the "corruption", if members of the government were corrupt, then I assume they would be prosecuted. This isn't a lawless society.

Each scandal is $2B maximum, but its the sheer magnitude of the Liberal incompetence and corruption in every file in every ministry that is so staggering. Ontario can be compared with Canada: In Harper's time, the debt went up 28%. Under McGuinty and Wynne in the same period, it went up over 100%, and this was with increasing transfer payments.
Simple math shows that Ontario would be $100B better off if we had Harper running the show.

 

[picard102]

Simple math shows that Ontario would be $100B better off if we had Harper running the show.

Simple Math doesn't include hypothetical interdimensional time travel typically.

 

[jje1000]

Whether or not any of the drama about the PCs is of any importance is one thing, but journalists are only reporting on facts, mate.

To be honest, journalists report the facts, but they can choose what to emphasize and what to omit/deemphasize. Media is not only about the news, it's about shaping public opinion as well.

This is why I always keep that grain of salt in mind when reading news from sources like the Sun or the Star.

 

[Bayer]

Each scandal is $2B maximum, but its the sheer magnitude of the Liberal incompetence and corruption in every file in every ministry that is so staggering. Ontario can be compared with Canada: In Harper's time, the debt went up 28%. Under McGuinty and Wynne in the same period, it went up over 100%, and this was with increasing transfer payments.
Simple math shows that Ontario would be $100B better off if we had Harper running the show.

Those are gratuitous and/or exaggerated accusations. We went through a recession. Cutting spending considerably in a province that is already not fond of spending at all regardless of the nonsense people constantly parrot (the figures are there for all to see) would have caused suffering and deaths - no less, considering such a high proportion of the budget is dedicated to health and social services. Wynne's method was infinitely preferable.

Now the entitled daughter-of, who reportedly decided to run because she saw her name in the newspapers (and no doubt appreciated very much this chance to no longer "toil" in obscurity), wants to "cut government waste". Well, I remember the Harris years - for example, a report on a lady who had voted for the PC because she was a pull-yourself-up-by-your-bootstraps person and she didn't like people "abusing the system"... but boo-hoo, her training program was chopped and this incarnation of "government waste" had the nerve to whine in public about it.

I'm voting Liberal again because of policies I totally agree with on tuition, rental housing, pharmacare and minimum wage, and simply because of the future: The NDP is at once nowhere and all over the place, and Conservatives are very good at destruction, recrimination and general negativity, but not so much at suggesting anything that would improve the lives of Ontario citizens. Also I'm gay and in my fifties, so for me, voting PC would be absolutely moronic.

 

[rbt]

Now the entitled daughter-of, who reportedly decided to run because she saw her name in the newspapers (and no doubt appreciated very much this chance to no longer "toil" in obscurity), wants to "cut government waste".

I strongly agree with cutting government waste. I have huge issues with how waste is typically defined; gut reaction to line-item title is a horrible metric. They have no idea whether the service reductions are helping or hindering the province going forward.

That's not fiscal conservative (or a well run business) in my mind; it's just random dart tossing.

Creating things based on gut reaction gets a bit more leeway as it's hard to understand something that doesn't exist yet. Refinement is almost always necessary.

It doesn't seem that hard to provide an equation, some variation of economic return, during campaigning which will be used to judge departments, then give department heads a year to justify their department against that equation.

Most social programs stand up well when measured for economic return. Government provides healthcare because a healthy workforce pays more taxes.


I'd like the cut crowd to actually provide a definition of waste during campaigning.

In the mean time, I'll put my vote behind the group that intends to tackle GTA congestion which I feel is holding the entire province back economically. RER, thus far, seems like the best proposal on the table even if execution isn't going as quickly as I would like.

 

[DSC]

I'm voting Liberal again because of policies I totally agree with on tuition, rental housing, pharmacare and minimum wage, and simply because of the future: The NDP is at once nowhere and all over the place, and Conservatives are very good at destruction, recrimination and general negativity, but not so much at suggesting anything that would improve the lives of Ontario citizens. Also I'm gay and in my fifties, so for me, voting PC would be absolutely moronic.

Couldn't have said it better myself (though I am older!) The Liberals are far from perfect and have certainly done some stupid things but the NDP are simply 'out of it' and the Tories are exposing all their faults at once.

 

[Juan_Lennon416]

I'm voting Liberal again because of policies I totally agree with on tuition, rental housing, pharmacare and minimum wage, and simply because of the future: The NDP is at once nowhere and all over the place, and Conservatives are very good at destruction, recrimination and general negativity, but not so much at suggesting anything that would improve the lives of Ontario citizens. Also I'm gay and in my fifties, so for me, voting PC would be absolutely moronic.

Yep...'re-elect the Liberals for another 4 years, watch them continue to do nonsense, and then complain non-stop on UT

Sorry but change is needed!!!

 

[DSC]

Yep...'re-elect the Liberals for another 4 years, watch them continue to do nonsense, and then complain non-stop on UT

Sorry but change is needed!!!

I also like the idea of change but it needs to be a change for the better and the NDP are not offering much and the Tories, though they do promise change, will NOT bring change for the better! (In fact it will make most people's lives WORSE!)..

 

[stanko]

I also like the idea of change but it needs to be a change for the better and the NDP are not offering much and the Tories, though they do promise change, will NOT bring change for the better! (In fact it will make most people's lives WORSE!)..

What do you mean the NDP aren't offering much? Don't know about you but they're the only party that hasn't made me as an Ontarian feel like I don't matter. Can't say the same for the Liberals or Tories

 

[BurlOak]

What do you mean the NDP aren't offering much? Don't know about you but they're the only party that hasn't made me as an Ontarian feel like I don't matter. Can't say the same for the Liberals or Tories

The NDP and Liberals basically occupy the same space on the political spectrum. The NDP comes up with the ideas and the Liberals steal them.
Essentially, the NDP are a harder working, more honest and ethical version of the Liberals.
Unfortunately, for those on the left, honesty and ethics are not that important so the NDP gets little support.

 

[SunriseChampion]

To be honest, journalists report the facts, but they can choose what to emphasize and what to omit/deemphasize. Media is not only about the news, it's about shaping public opinion as well.

This is why I always keep that grain of salt in mind when reading news from sources like the Sun or the Star.

This is true. One should always take in any information provided with a sceptical and critical mind. Always. Regardless of the source.

 

[Irishmonk]

The NDP and Liberals basically occupy the same space on the political spectrum. The NDP comes up with the ideas and the Liberals steal them.
Essentially, the NDP are a harder working, more honest and ethical version of the Liberals.
Unfortunately, for those on the left, honesty and ethics are not that important so the NDP gets little support.

As someone on the left, I really resent these broad generalizations and I find your comment to be both glib and insulting. With all the things that happened during the Ford years, and what is currently happening south of here under Trump, how can you even make such fatuous, self-righteous claims? Or do you consider Trump to be an ethical, honest person?

 

[SunriseChampion]

Something has to change. You guys do realise that wasting money on contract cancellation penalties (no matter how small the amount may be) and increasing interest payments prevents that money from being spent on beneficial programmes, right? You do realise that selling off a part of Hydro One as a short-sighted fiscal stop-gap is akin to pawning clothing to buy new shoes.
Sure, vote for the Liberals if you agree with their policy proposals (I mean, I agree with a good deal of them myself), but don't defend fiscal mismanagement with arguments that make it sound like disappearing amounts of public money below a certain, undefined, threshold is ok. It's not. I don't break myself working outdoors all year to have my fiscal contribution pissed away and then concerns about it laughed off as inconsequential. You think it's nothing? You come do my job. Government needs to be run well and should never forget that they are there for us, not the other way around. I know this comes hard to a lot of politicians and party apparatchiks but it needs to be drilled into their little self-interested heads.

Equally unhelpful is the talk perpetrated by some about "efficiencies" and "waste". Ok, like what? Provide examples and how you would address them. Don't just parrot ambiguous terms that you are unable to define and contextualise. You're only fooling fools. That interview with Milewski and Ford on Power and Politics yesterday speaks volumes. Ford couldn't identify a single example of inefficiency or waste and just kept spewing the same line about how he would find it. Sounded like some of the records I bring home from garage sales: worth throwing in the bin.
If one of these politicians came out and said, for example, that hospital CEOs' salaries had gone up by x% over the last five years while those same CEOs' hospital diagnostic equipment programmes saw a commensurate decrease in funding then we'd have something to talk about. As it stands, they just yap about nothing.


I would also like to point out that politics isn't binary. This small-minded "left-right" simplification and name calling only leads to polarisation which benefits no one and does not accurately describe political reality nor people's beliefs and ideologies.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

As someone on the left, I really resent these broad generalizations and I find your comment to be both glib and insulting. With all the things that happened during the Ford years, and what is currently happening south of here under Trump, how can you even make such fatuous, self-righteous claims? Or do you consider Trump to be an ethical, honest person?

But apparently he is a good person because the stock market is rising. Oops. Anyways, back to the issue at hand - hardly *anyone* along the entire spectrum talk about paying down the debt before spending or tax cuts/credits. That tells you all you need to know.

AoD