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2018 Ontario Provincial Election Discussion

toaster29

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Those are gratuitous and/or exaggerated accusations. We went through a recession. Cutting spending considerably in a province that is already not fond of spending at all regardless of the nonsense people constantly parrot (the figures are there for all to see) would have caused suffering and deaths - no less, considering such a high proportion of the budget is dedicated to health and social services. Wynne's method was infinitely preferable.

Now the entitled daughter-of, who reportedly decided to run because she saw her name in the newspapers (and no doubt appreciated very much this chance to no longer "toil" in obscurity), wants to "cut government waste". Well, I remember the Harris years - for example, a report on a lady who had voted for the PC because she was a pull-yourself-up-by-your-bootstraps person and she didn't like people "abusing the system"... but boo-hoo, her training program was chopped and this incarnation of "government waste" had the nerve to whine in public about it.

I'm voting Liberal again because of policies I totally agree with on tuition, rental housing, pharmacare and minimum wage, and simply because of the future: The NDP is at once nowhere and all over the place, and Conservatives are very good at destruction, recrimination and general negativity, but not so much at suggesting anything that would improve the lives of Ontario citizens. Also I'm gay and in my fifties, so for me, voting PC would be absolutely moronic.

I think we are beyond that, all three parties are supportive of same-sex marriage, benefits, etc. If it's because of positions parties have had historically, well let's not forget it's the ONDP who were the first to support same-sex marriage, unions, adoptive rights, anti-discriminatory legislation (all of which the Liberal campaigned against at one point in time). Why is it that you are allowed to only look back to a certain point in time, when it is convenient for you? Regardless, I'm a (younger) gay man, and don't think voting for any of the 4 major parties is moronic, as none of any policies or promises that would negatively affect the community. That said, I'm supporting Horwath.
 

Bayer

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I think we are beyond that, all three parties are supportive of same-sex marriage, benefits, etc. If it's because of positions parties have had historically, well let's not forget it's the ONDP who were the first to support same-sex marriage, unions, adoptive rights, anti-discriminatory legislation (all of which the Liberal campaigned against at one point in time). Why is it that you are allowed to only look back to a certain point in time, when it is convenient for you? Regardless, I'm a (younger) gay man, and don't think voting for any of the 4 major parties is moronic, as none of any policies or promises that would negatively affect the community. That said, I'm supporting Horwath.

Good for you. I have supported the NDP in the past but they have always disappointed me. However, if you are younger, then I suggest refraining from lecturing your elders, who experienced a totally different reality. And it's great you believe nothing the Conservatives would do would negatively affect the community, but speaking from experience and considering the candidates to the PC leadership have said, well... that would be very optimistic.
 

TheTigerMaster

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I think we are beyond that, all three parties are supportive of same-sex marriage, benefits, etc. If it's because of positions parties have had historically, well let's not forget it's the ONDP who were the first to support same-sex marriage, unions, adoptive rights, anti-discriminatory legislation (all of which the Liberal campaigned against at one point in time). Why is it that you are allowed to only look back to a certain point in time, when it is convenient for you? Regardless, I'm a (younger) gay man, and don't think voting for any of the 4 major parties is moronic, as none of any policies or promises that would negatively affect the community. That said, I'm supporting Horwath.

The PCPO won’t publicly go after LGBT rights, because they’re not stupid. They know Ontarians will have none of it.

Nevertheless, that party is full of hardline social conservatives, that absolutely want to impose a socially conservative agenda on Ontario. PC MPPs have even admitted that won’t publicly talk about what they desire to implement, to avoid backlash from voters.

Furthermore, legislation restiricting minority and women rights aren’t the only way the PC social policy can be detrimental. There are a lot of more subtle tools at their disposal, including general apathy to whatever issues minority communities are experiencing. This is perhaps best exhibited by the Regan’s administration failure to act on the HIV/AIDS epedimic, which killed masses of minorities, particularly blacks and gays. Obviously this is an extreme example, but it demonstrates how dangerous apathy from government leaders can be. If some sort of crisis were to hit minority communities in Ontario, I couldn’t trust the PC government to handle it responsibly.

I’d like the be able to trust that the PCs have the best interests of minority communities at heart, but I can’t. On multiple ocsssioms they’ve been caught talking on both sides of their mouth - saying they support one thing publicaly, and then in private saying they oppose it. They’re not socially progressive. They just pretend to be so that they’d have a chance of convincing the electorate to support them.
 

MetroMan

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Patrick Brown is making it clear that he’s not going to shut up about the allegations against him, guaranteeing that they stay in the news during the general election and leave an air of suspicion about the party and the legitimacy of his replacement.

http://torontosun.com/news/provinci...-brown-refutes-sex-misconduct-allegations/amp

Wynne can just stand aside, talk about her policies and look like someone with a steady hand on the provincial government. At the very least, this is going to convince a segment of likely PC voters into staying at home. At worst, it’s going to drive independents back to Wynne. The PC party comes across as in turmoil and not ready to run a government.
 

Palma

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As someone on the left, I really resent these broad generalizations and I find your comment to be both glib and insulting. With all the things that happened during the Ford years, and what is currently happening south of here under Trump, how can you even make such fatuous, self-righteous claims? Or do you consider Trump to be an ethical, honest person?
As honest as Kathleen Wynn
 

jje1000

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Province bearing heavy cost of Hydro One sale

It would have been cheaper to borrow money for transit projects than to sell shares in Hydro One, watchdog says. Provincial treasury will lose $1.1 billion in dividends from Hydro One this year.
The controversial deal, which raised $9.2 billion, boosted Ontario’s bottom line by $3.8 billion in the fiscal years from 2015 to 2018, the Financial Accountability Office (FAO) said in an updated report Monday.

But the provincial treasury will lose $1.1 billion in dividends from Hydro One this year and an average of $264 million annually until the 2024-25 fiscal year.

https://www.thestar.com/news/queens...nce-bearing-heavy-cost-of-hydro-one-sale.html
 

TrickyRicky

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One aspect of politics I find fascinating is how Left and Right party policy evolves and how there is little congruency between the stated values of supporters and their stand on any given issue at any given time in history.

While I am fully opposed to Right-wing populism as articulated by the Ford family or Donald Trump I’ve got to admit their movement has an underlying point. You can disagree but I haven’t heard it well articulated in media. The point is that economic liberalization and progressive policy is often inflationary and ironically marginalizes people. In other words, using government policy to help people, helps people at the expense of hurting people.

This is actually in my opinion at the heart of why so many people dislike Wynne. She is trying so hard to use government policy to help people and to advance progressive values that the cost of everything is skyrocketing and the lives of average Ontario households is impacted.
 
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Northern Light

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One aspect of politics I find fascinating is how Left and Right party policy evolves and how there is little congruency between the stated values of supporters and their stand on any given issue at any given time in history.

While I am fully opposed to Right-wing populism as articulated by the Ford family or Donald Trump I’ve got to admit their movement has an underlying point. You can disagree but I haven’t heard it well articulated in media. The point is that economic liberalization and progressive policy is often inflationary and ironically marginalizes people. In other words, using government policy to help people, helps people at the expense of hurting people.

This is actually in my opinion at the heart of why so many people dislike Wynne. She is trying so hard to use government policy to help people and to advance progressive values that the cost of everything is skyrocketing and the lives of average Ontario households is impacted.


I very much disagree with this last part.

If one considers the cost of most goods and services, inflation is very low.

This forum spends much time bemoaning (rightly, I think) that property taxes in Toronto have been raised, on average, well below the rate of inflation, post-amalgamation.

Groceries, clothes, cars, etc have all seen inflation below 2% (annualized) over the last decade.

However, there are notable exceptions, by far, housing is the biggest, followed by electricity, and in Toronto, water; all have risen by rates of 9-20% annually when measured over a decade.

Only one of those, on paper, is directly the responsibility of Wynne.

I would also add that pharmacare and minimum wage are both polling very well with voters.

****

It would be my suggestion that what Wynne suffers from is 'just another politician' syndrome, where post-gas-plant scandal many voters were deeply frustrated both by the overt waste of money (the cancellations of plants that were never politically acceptable in their locations to any party, followed by unduly and unjustifiably lucrative settlements w/the plants proponents).

In the wake of that, some voters had hopes Wynne had turned a new leaf for the Liberals........... but the Hydro One sell-off has the gas plant ring of scandal. The long-standing Liberal position was that privatization was off-the-table and a bad idea, and yet suddenly they were its champions.

Fair or not, it immediately had people wondering if any politician had principles, and whether someone was making untowards profit off the move. It also resonated at a time when electricity rates were still spiraling up.

Finally, I think if one reviews the last 4 years, one would be hard-pressed to notice any of the progressive policy were now talking about in years one or two.

That had many folks asking 'what was the deficit for if not to finance important improvements etc?'

Most folks like what they've seen the last year or so, not everyone, but a good 2/3 of the population.

What people are struggling with is a messenger who has left the impression of good ideas when necessary for re-election......but not unless or until.

People are also skeptical of another shoe to drop, fiscally.

I also think Real Estate pricing remains a worry. If it stays high, people remain concerned that the market has been irrational, whose fault was that????, while if it drops quickly, that will cause every bit as much harm.

Then there's that 1/3 that would never have voted for her and/or the Libs in the first place for whom any question decision is a reason to deepen their irrational distaste.
 

TheKingEast

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Another example of why no thinking person would support the Liberals.

Of those who think, the choice is between NDP and PC.

I already know who I’m not voting for. But there are plenty who seem to be unphased by this and still have unwavering support for Wynne and the Libs. Amazing.
 

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