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2018 Ontario Provincial Election Discussion

syn said:
Am I the beast or are you referring to Patrick brown? As @Videodrome has pointed out, Brown disavowed himself from social conservatives some time ago. He may have wanted Ford on board at some point, but not anymore.

I'd love to see all these examples of the media's unfair coverage on Doug or Rob Ford.
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I was referring to Ford as the Beast. And Im mot really intersted getting into a discussion over the media bias as it directly pertains the Fords only

I mentioned they use media bias as a part of their platform but for me its not fair as political slant and media bias is rampant for both the right and left. The Left just have a few more media outlets to get their narratives out comparatively . And if you choose not to believe bias or slant exists in the political media then let's just disagree as imo you only need to read the Star and Sun once to determine which party runs each paper and see the slant with words they use, pictures, issues what they choose to focus on etc. Very political imo
 
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TrickyRicky said:
Patrick Brown looks like a weak candidate but you never know. I recall thinking how weak and unelectable Dalton McGuinty was but somehow he not only succeeded but created a Liberal political dynasty in Ontario.

With Wynne operating on the extreme left-wing ( left of the NDP at the moment) there would be breathing space in the centre but it remains to be seen if Brown can steer the wacko elements that still comprise too much of his party in the right direction.
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Extreme left wing? Hardly. It remains a centrist party. I am not seeing calls for higher taxes, which I believe are absolutely necessary; our public spending and taxes per capita are still among the lowest in Canada. I would rather say that the NDP is too far to the right.
 
OneCity said:
I was referring to Ford as the Beast. And Im mot really intersted getting into a discussion over the media bias as it directly pertains the Fords only

I mentioned they use media bias as a part of their platform but for me its not fair as political slant and media bias is rampant for both the right and left. The Left just have a few more media outlets to get their narratives out comparatively . And if you choose not to believe bias or slant exists in the political media then let's just disagree as imo you only need to read the Star and Sun once to determine which party runs each paper and see the slant with words they use, pictures, issues what they choose to focus on etc. Very political imo
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'Media bias' is your answer to anything you don't agree with.

There is obviously media bias - no question - but simply stating it exists doesn't mean anything in the context of these discussions. It certainly doesn't mean anything when a politician like Ford courts media attention while simultaneously accusing them of having a vendetta against him.

Can you provide actual concrete examples of media bias against the Ford's, reports that weren't justified?
 
syn said:
'Media bias' is your answer to anything you don't agree with.

There is obviously media bias - no question - but simply stating it exists doesn't mean anything in the context of these discussions. It certainly doesn't mean anything when a politician like Ford courts media attention while simultaneously accusing them of having a vendetta against him.

Can you provide actual concrete examples of media bias against the Ford's, reports that weren't justified?
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You acknowledge their is potlical media bias. But you are trying to take me into a conversation about the Fords. I said what I had to say about them on his topic. If you want to see examples go back yourself to any election and look at the left and right candidates and review articles from all media. You can find Ford, Tory, Chow bias for yourself. Its obvious. Just because a story is "justified" newsworthy doenst mean the way its reported or the spin to convince voters to believe a political narrative is acceptable. Also just as big of a problem is what they choose not to report to fit the narratives.

Anyway you are OK with this I guess. Me obviously not so much. Especially when it affects issues that are important me and people voice are talked over in order to create dumbed down argument to fit the narrative.
 
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Bayer, taxation has risen substantially. It just has been engineered to not look that way on paper to the average person (for now) by loading tax increases on business and higher income earners and by hiding cost escalations in policy compliance.

WSIB contributions skyrocketing isn't "tax" but you still must comply and it still comes out of your pocket. You could make a case that that is the right policy move but you can't argue that costs aren't skyrocketing regardless of if we call it tax or not.

Look at cap and trade. Not too much sticker shock at low oil prices. When the price of oil goes back up the shock will start to creep in. We'll start seeing prices at the pump we've never seen before.
 
OneCity said:
You acknowledge their is potlical media bias. But you are trying to take me into a conversation about the Fords. I said what I had to say about them on his topic. If you want to see examples go back yourself to any election and look at the left and right candidates and review articles from all media. You can find Ford, Tory, Chow bias for yourself. Its obvious. Just because a story is "justified" newsworthy doenst mean the way its reported or the spin to convince voters to believe a political narrative is acceptable. Also just as big of a problem is what they choose not to report to fit the narratives.

Anyway you are OK with this I guess. Me obviously not so much. Especially when it affects issues that are important me and people voice are talked over in order to create dumbed down argument to fit the narrative.
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You're discussing the Fords.

Yet again, you can't provide a single example, nor do you seem to have a problem with the Ford's continually creating dumbed down arguments to fit their narrative.
 
Ontario continues to be outpaced by Quebec in the job market.

dims

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2017/0...-in-canada_a_23196257/?utm_hp_ref=ca-homepage
 
jje1000 said:
Ontario continues to be outpaced by Quebec in the job market.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2017/0...-in-canada_a_23196257/?utm_hp_ref=ca-homepage
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Article states:
Also notable is Ontario's absence from this list.

There's nothing wrong with the province's job performance per se; it added 2 per cent net new jobs over the past year. It's just that other places are hotter; Ontario's job growth is well below the 3.6-per-cent pace in British Columbia, and the 3-per-cent pace in Quebec over the past year.

Another notable element in this survey: For all ten provinces, the top advertised occupation was retail salespersons or retail managers. That's likely a reflection of two things: The sorts of jobs advertised on the Canada Job Bank, and the ongoing problem of job quality in Canada.
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Advertised jobs are often a very misleading indicator of how healthy an economy is. It all depends on the *nature* of the jobs, let alone the pay.

Where Ontario is ahead is in GDP Growth:
Ontario's economy is surging after years of lagging behind the oil-producing provinces.

Don't believe it? There's plenty of evidence.

Canada's big banks are forecasting that Ontario will lead the country in economic growth this year or be within a hair of the top of the pack. Unemployment sits at its lowest level in 16 years. And that economic success is being felt across a range of sectors, including manufacturing, real estate, finance and technology.

Corporate profits in Ontario are up significantly. You can tell by the province's corporate tax revenue, which jumped a whopping 16.8 per cent last year, and 19.6 per cent in 2015.

Ontario businesses surveyed by the Bank of Canada say sales are up and they're looking to invest in new equipment and hire additional staff.

The boom is centred on the Greater Toronto Area, forecast this week by the Conference Board of Canada to lead the country's metropolitan areas in 2017 with a 2.6 per cent increase in the gross domestic product. Other parts of the province are doing well too, particularly Windsor, the Ottawa region and the Kitchener-Cambridge-Guelph triangle.[...]
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http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-economy-provincial-economic-growth-forecast-1.4131428

Not definitive, but an excellent indicator.
 
syn said:
You're discussing the Fords.

Yet again, you can't provide a single example, nor do you seem to have a problem with the Ford's continually creating dumbed down arguments to fit their narrative.
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Inevitably im not interested in you trying to pin me to defend the Ford just because I discussed them. But since I went to the Ford thread here and there was an article posted by another member I figured I give you a little something as you seem to keep asking for it. I would send thousands if I really cared too, as Political bias is beyond obvious, but as I said you are pushing me too defend Fords which isn't cool with me. So we are done for now

I have to go over things because you seem to always want to have that "see I gotcha" post when I ignore your requests and angle me as something im not. Remember I said bias is on both sides, I could also care less to defend the Fords but will discuss them, I mentioned that Ford uses opposition bias as part of their platform to their advantage, which they do and will again. Not sure why you need articles from me. Surely you can google to see slanted headlines, carefully selected pictures, and all the others narrative supporting nonsense that goes on convince readers

As mentioned heres the one the other member posted:
Doug Ford for mayor of Toronto? Please, no — Rob was enough

Unbias reporting would be - Doug Ford might announce bid for Mayor.

Since you likely agree with the author it's OK to you. For those that dont im sure they're not impressed at all. And vice versa if it was the Sun and Chow. The Fords call it a "witch hunt". I call it Political media bias.
 
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OneCity said:
Inevitably im not interested in you trying to pin me to defend the Ford just because I discussed them. But since I went to the Ford thread here and there was an article posted by another member I figured I give you a little something as you seem to keep asking for it. I would send thousands if I really cared too, as Political bias is beyond obvious, but as I said you are pushing me too defend Fords which isn't cool with me. So we are done for now

I have to go over things because you seem to always want to have that "see I gotcha" post when I ignore your requests and angle me as something im not. Remember I said bias is on both sides, I could also care less to defend the Fords but will discuss them, I mentioned that Ford uses opposition bias as part of their platform to their advantage, which they do and will again. Not sure why you need articles from me. Surely you can google to see slanted headlines, carefully selected pictures, and all the others narrative supporting nonsense that goes on convince readers

As mentioned heres the one the other member posted:
Doug Ford for mayor of Toronto? Please, no — Rob was enough

Unbias reporting would be - Doug Ford might announce bid for Mayor.

Since you likely agree with the author it's OK to you. For those that dont im sure they're not impressed at all. And vice versa if it was the Sun and Chow. The Fords call it a "witch hunt". I call it Political media bias.
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It's an opinion piece. Of course it's biased. Can you point out any facts in the article that are inaccurate?

The Globe and Mail is not a 'left wing' paper, neither is the Toronto Sun, a paper which criticized Ford a fair amount.

Can you provide any examples of their actual reporting that's biased to the degree that it's unfair?

No one is pushing you to defend anything, but it's quite clear you'll use 'media bias' as an excuse for anything, while seemingly having no issue with any dishonesty from the Ford family.
 
syn said:
It's an opinion piece. Of course it's biased. Can you point out any facts in the article that are inaccurate?

The Globe and Mail is not a 'left wing' paper, neither is the Toronto Sun, a paper which criticized Ford a fair amount.

Can you provide any examples of their actual reporting that's biased to the degree that it's unfair?

No one is pushing you to defend anything, but it's quite clear you'll use 'media bias' as an excuse for anything, while seemingly having no issue with any dishonesty from the Ford family.
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The Sun is very right wing, never said it wasn't. Actually I mentioned something to the contrary, if you read. Again why are you asking me to defend the Fords? I dont support them personally and my main issue is not with the Fords, understandably its more your issue and may continue to be in this Political climate. What I mentioned as the media is a issue in this City in terms of fair representation of the overall voting landscape. Media bias (which you agree exists) is not a major problem until its heavily weighted on one side. Far from an excuse, I just see it as part of why you and all of us likely have our toxic political problem these days and why you some have minimal understanding. The Fords can tap into it because it is heavier weighted and some people who don't feel represented will latch on to that Politician out of apathy. When you are on the other side you don't see it as something bad or even seen the bias as a problem. You actually agree with everything these media personalities is saying, and worse not saying. Others who support their politics don't agree. That's my main point. Lets agree to disagree as lets face it you and I don't agree this is a problem. And again you are trying to create and image of me supporting the Fords and I have no use to debate when you are have to continue down this path.
 
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OneCity said:
The Sun is very right wing, never said it wasn't. Actually I mentioned something to the contrary, if you read. Again why are you asking me to defend the Fords? I dont support them personally and my main issue is not with the Fords, understandably its more your issue and may continue to be in this Political climate. What I mentioned as the media is a issue in this City in terms of fair representation of the overall voting landscape. Media bias (which you agree exists) is not a major problem until its heavily weighted on one side. Far from an excuse, I just see it as part of why you and all of us likely have our toxic political problem these days and why you some have minimal understanding. The Fords can tap into it because it is heavier weighted and some people who don't feel represented will latch on to that Politician out of apathy. When you are on the other side you don't see it as something bad or even seen the bias as a problem. You actually agree with everything these media personalities is saying, and worse not saying. Others who support their politics don't agree. That's my main point. Lets agree to disagree as lets face it you and I don't agree this is a problem. And again you are trying to create and image of me supporting the Fords and I have no use to debate when you are have to continue down this path.
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No, I don't.

You brought up Ford, you brought up the media. One can understand media bias exists and evaluate the facts for themselves. If you're incapable of this, I can understand why virtually every argument you make focuses on blaming the media when they report something you don't agree with.
 
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