2018 Ontario Provincial Election Discussion

[Jasmine18]

Which specific policies have shown that the current premier's promises will lead to higher taxes?

All of the promises such as free drugs to under 25 crowd and more spending to distract voters with will likely mean deficits in the future and will raise taxes on Ontarians to support that ...because liberals have increased taxes and we keep putting them back in office...

Wynne Balance budget is about is balanced as the Harper Balance budget and I am certain after her reflection, the budget situation will spiral to mass deficit spending like it has on the federal level again.

 

[ADRM]

All of the promises such as free drugs to under 25 crowd and more spending to distract voters with will likely mean deficits in the future and will raise taxes on Ontarians to support that ...because liberals have increased taxes and we keep putting them back in office...

Wynne Balance budget is about is balanced as the Harper Balance budget and I am certain after her reflection, the budget situation will spiral to mass deficit spending like it has on the federal level again.

I don't think you fully understand how budgeting or deficit projections work.

 

[jje1000]

It's from the Fraser Institute (dubious political orientation), but the basic facts from Statscan still stand:

The report by the Fraser Institute, which used data from Statistics Canada, shows from 2008 to 2016 residential hydro costs in Ontario rose 71 per cent, while the average increase across Canada totalled 34 per cent.

The study, called "Evaluating Electricity Price Growth in Ontario," also shows that electricity prices in the province increased at nearly four times the overall rate of inflation in the period from 2008 to 2015.

The study does not take into account cuts to hydro bills this year, which have seen the average household electricity bill drop 25 per cent from its peak in 2016.

Greene said that is because the study uses the most recent publicly available data for its comparisons.

Using data compiled by Hydro-Québec, the study compares the hydro bill (including taxes) for a typical household using 1,000 kWh per month in selected cities, as of 2016:

• Montreal: $83.08
• Winnipeg: $97.50
• Calgary: $109.19
• Vancouver: $114.38
• Halifax: $166.80
• Ottawa: $182.51
• Toronto: $201.23

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-hydro-fraser-institute-study-1.4212668

The issue is hardly the gas plants- it's the Liberals consistently going against their very own advisers and experts for short-term gains.

And yet time after time, the auditor general would come to the same conclusion regarding the Liberals’ green energy initiatives.

For example when McCarter’s successor, Bonnie Lysyk, found in 2014 that the Liberals failed to do a cost benefit analysis or develop a business plan when they introduced smart meters, thus going almost $1 billion over budget.

That was also true for their cancelled gas plants fiasco, costing more than a billion.

True for the 20-year, wildly overpriced Feed-in-Tariff (FIT) contracts the Liberals signed with green energy developers.

True when the Liberals ignored the advice of their own experts on green energy pricing, costing $9.2 billion.

Blunder after blunder. That’s the record of the Liberals on green energy, which was never needed to replace coal-fired electricity as the Liberals claim. That was done with nuclear power and natural gas.

And what’s the Liberals’ answer to this fiscal disaster they have inflicted on Ontarians?

It’s to borrow up to $93 billion more to pay for $24 billion in hydro rate relief for four years, a temporary 25% discount, after which rates will explode as never before.

http://www.torontosun.com/2017/07/20/hydro-sticker-shock-all-thanks-to-liberals-mismanagement



And a strange little aside- interesting buying a US utility so far away- I would imagine buying a more local US utility (i.e. in NY, Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania) to send our excess energy would have made more sense.

Hydro One buying U.S. utility for $6.7B
Hydro One is buying a U.S. utility in a $6.7-billion deal being touted as a win by the Ontario government, which owns 49 per cent of the transmitter.

Hydro One is buying a massive U.S. utility in a $6.7-billion deal being touted as a win by the Ontario government, which currently owns 49 per cent of the transmitter.

The Toronto-based company, the majority of which Premier Kathleen Wynne sold off to bankroll transportation infrastructure, announced Wednesday it was purchasing Avista, which operates in Washington state, Oregon, Idaho, Montana, and Alaska.

https://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2017/07/19/hydro-one-buying-us-utility-for-67b.html

 

[Northern Light]

All of the promises such as free drugs to under 25 crowd and more spending to distract voters with will likely mean deficits in the future and will raise taxes on Ontarians to support that ...because liberals have increased taxes and we keep putting them back in office...

Wynne Balance budget is about is balanced as the Harper Balance budget and I am certain after her reflection, the budget situation will spiral to mass deficit spending like it has on the federal level again.

While there certainly are risks in the assumptions made in the last Liberal budget; the OHIP+ program (pharmacare for youth) is not one of them.

The annualized cost is pegged at 465M gross (likely less on a net basis), on annual expenses of approximately 135 billion.

That cost is budgeted fully into projections.

I would note further that there will (likely) be another provincial budget before the next election, so purely from a political perspective one would imagine that this year's numbers are fairly
conservative, as going into the election with a deficit would be undesirable.

***

There are real concerns for Ontario when it comes to medium-term projections, from rising interest rates (and thus debt-servicing costs) to whether certain 'assumptions' about economic performance will hold.

But a near-term deficit seems unlikely.

I should add, if nothing changes between now and fall, I expect to see tracking towards a material surplus this year, as Ontario's economy is doing rather well for the moment.

***

There are many reasons to be critical of the provincial Liberals, for now, deficits are not one.

I should add, I think objectively Pharmacare is good public policy for a whole host of reasons, including economic competitiveness.

But that's a separate discussion.

 

[Jasmine18]

I don't think you fully understand how budgeting or deficit projections work.

The fact is the liberal have made Ontario the most debt ridden Province of State in North America and that a large portion of our budget will be used to pay interest payment in perpetuity.

Thank you Ontario Liberals...

Its going to be Jokes Trudeau and Wynne are going to make Canada more European..in terms of perpetual debt problems.

 

[kEiThZ]

The options are terrible. I want to vote for a government that prioritizes public infrastructure. The only choice I have is the Liberals. The NDP treats infrastructure as one among many social priorities. The Conservatives don't care about infrastructure at all. I suspect many in this forum are in the same boat.

 

[lead82]

This is the problem with wasteful spending. We collect higher debt and get less services because more costs go towards debt payments. The issue with Hydro is bad policy but good politics. The Liberals made feel good Hydro policies that raked up costs to win vote. Whether it was the gas plants or the 25% cut it was to buy votes. The public is mostly to blame for this of course as many keep harping over energy costs when for the vast majority it is a very small cost of living that can be controlled through energy conservation. Rural and smaller towns are more affected by the insane Hydro One distribution costs and use of electric heaters.

The problem is that the Ontario Tories are not much better at debt management. They just cut taxes and hope economy grows fast enough to pay for that. They don't invest in infrastructure and cut services to pay for the tax cuts and still rack up deficits without much to show for it. Debt goes up either way. Somehow it doesn't seem to affect the US or Europe in terms of spending. They keep spending and spending and debt keeps growing in most if not all Western countries.

We need a new Practical party that can get better value for our tax money. Until that happens we all have to decide whether the Tories or Liberals will do better. NDP as a party needs to be dismantled. They are a joke and have no coherent policy or positions. I can't believe Horwath still has her job after many screw ups over the years.

 

[Bob Burnhamthorpe]

Liberal-elite media biases! Fake News! The horror!

When, oh God, when, will we finally have a holistic establishment to help us usher in social conservatism on a wide scale?! If only the silly Cadillac socialists understood how the world really works, then we'd have ourselves a province.

So ... they're not predominantly progressive/liberal? My mistake.

By the way, WHO'S talking about *social* conservatism? I certainly wasn't.

Your bias is showing.

 

[Bob Burnhamthorpe]

The options are terrible. I want to vote for a government that prioritizes public infrastructure. The only choice I have is the Liberals. The NDP treats infrastructure as one among many social priorities. The Conservatives don't care about infrastructure at all. I suspect many in this forum are in the same boat.

I'm a progressive conservative (not a Progressive Conservative), and I care a *great deal* about infrastructure.

 

[Bob Burnhamthorpe]

I care more about Toronto than about Ontario. If the PC's could bring themselves to support a pro-GTA agenda, then they would win the election and my vote handidly.

But they can't or won't, and as much as Wynne's Liberals 'need to be defeated', they really musn't. It doesn't serve our interests in Toronto and set us back yet again just when things are starting to get going.

Fine ... vote for the New Democrats, then.

 

[Bob Burnhamthorpe]

The Trump parallels are beyond co-incidental. Also the consequences. These types of rants actually do *sensible conservatism* a massive dis-favour, as US conservatives especially are becoming aware, small and large 'c'.

Link?

(By the way ... I love this ... what's "sensible conservatism"?)

 

[Bob Burnhamthorpe]

Which specific policies have shown that the current premier's promises will lead to higher taxes?

Ummm ... the disastrous green energy program?

 

[BurlOak]

Fine ... vote for the New Democrats, then.

Is really is a choice between NDP and PC.

The Liberals have been so bad for so long, with piles of bad policy, missmanagement and Corruption - and often all three - the they likely won't gather much vote north of Blood.
The NDP is the choice if you like the same left wing direction the government has done in the past 15 years, with more honesty and less corruption
The PC's are the choice for those who want to move towards the centre, want to return Ontario as a leader in the country, and also want the honesty and less corruption. Despite Browns awkwardness, and Horvaths mediocre campaigning the last time, the Liberal record will ensure that their support will collapse. Three times Ontarians voted Liberal when they deserved to lose. And each time they regretted their choice shortly thereafter.
Fool us 3 times, shame on you - fool us 4 times, shame on us

 

[ADRM]

So ... they're not predominantly progressive/liberal? My mistake.

By the way, WHO'S talking about *social* conservatism? I certainly wasn't.

Your bias is showing.

A vote for the Ontario Tories is a vote for social conservatism whether you want to talk about it or not. They have openly homophobic members in their caucus and not even the Toronto Sun can deny that.

I think you're confusing bias with inconvenient truths.

 

[ADRM]

Ummm ... the disastrous green energy program?

Okay, explain, in detail and without relying on tired conservative tropes, how it will lead to higher taxes.