2018 Ontario Provincial Election Discussion

[Bob Burnhamthorpe]

Any single poll can't be accepted as being indicative in itself. It's the *trend* of poll results that is more telling, and a "trend" is defined (by most sources) as three or more results.

And a number of polls have indicated a change of "trend". If the trend continues, time is on Wynne's side...or to invert that, against Brown and Horwath. I'm no fan of Wynne, I'm even less of a fan of the alternatives, and that is a common characteristic being expressed by many.

Yup ... still lots of time for another massive money-losing scandal (or two) ...

 

[Bob Burnhamthorpe]

Interesting point- as awful as Ford was, he did have a significant amount of support among the working class and minorities. The PCs will need to face (or are grappling with)this changing reality- letting the SoCons from Eastern Ontario drive will only net them a spot in the opposition benches.

Another interesting notion- if the PCs perceive themselves as being competitive but weaker in Toronto- would it cause them to promote some Toronto-friendly proposals? Of course- it depends where their support in Toronto lies (probably the 416-suburbs).

If the PCs are too weak in Toronto I could see them cutting their losses and focusing on the 905.

I agree.

Brown needs a day (or even a few days) where he exclusively focuses on the City of Toronto (not the GTA) and what a Tory/Brown government will do for the City of Toronto.

 

[Bob Burnhamthorpe]

Completely agreed. But one has to wonder: Why are Brown (especially) and Horwath missing in action?

Brown's approach appears to be to let Wynne hoist herself on her own shortcomings. It's not working. I'm showing my age, unabashedly, to lamenting the times when the OntCons were a *powerful, articulate, centrist and considerate* force in Ontario. ("The Blue Machine"). Like all dynasties, they eroded. The last thirty years have been a disaster for OntCons.

I leave it at that, as time alone can only tell if change happens. It's not looking good at this rate...

Steve ... I know you hate conservatives (yes, I went there), but this is completely untrue.

He's everywhere.

Even on your TV.

The predominately progressive/liberal (perfect example: Martin Regg-Cohn) media down at QP don't trust Brown because they have very little to pin on him and he continues to keep his cards close to his chest. Still ... one thing they will admit is that he's quietly meeting/met A LOT of people (the Jason Kenney strategy) all across the province ... with tremendous effectiveness.

Mark my words: next year is gonna be a blowout (maybe not in Toronto, but elsewhere).

 

[steveintoronto]

He's everywhere.

Even on your TV.

I don't have a TV, and believe me, I follow the press closely.

Here's a suggestion:
List what Brown has committed. In *actual figures* not weasel words. And btw, since you like to misrepresent ones view of a particular Party, my last vote in this nation was for a Conservative. And my father was an elected Conservative councillor in the UK.

I say a pox on all of the parties! But at least, for all her many faults, Wynne has stated figures and detail.

Now produce what Brown has stated in the way of details. How hard can that be? The fact that you claim he's everywhere, but no-one knows anything about his platform speaks words larger than your vocabulary.

Mark my words: next year is gonna be a blowout

Maybe cutting back on the fruit might tighten up the bowels? Whatever, lots of toilet paper and soap is always considered good housekeeping. Wouldn't want to ruffle Brown's boat now, would we?

 

[Hopkins123]

It's waaaaaaay too early in the campaign to be criticizing Brown for not being more visible. The more we see of him, the more he'll be open to attacks from the Left. This is precisely what did in Hudak.

He allowed his critics to define him by publishing his entire platform (e.g. the vilified 100,000 gov't job cuts) in those 'White Papers' several months out from the election.

I say keep everyone guessing for as long as possible, then dazzle the public in the eleventh hour with winning policy after winning policy. Those in the Anybody But Wynne camp will flock to Brown regardless.

 

[steveintoronto]

It's waaaaaaay too early in the campaign to be criticizing Brown for not being more visible. The more we see of him, the more he'll be open to attacks from the Left. This is precisely what did in Hudak.

He allowed his critics to define him by publishing his entire platform (e.g. the vilified 100,000 gov't job cuts) in those 'White Papers' several months out from the election.

I say keep everyone guessing for as long as possible, then dazzle the public in the eleventh hour with winning policy after winning policy. Those in the Anybody But Wynne camp will flock to Brown regardless.

Distinct whiffs of Trump apoligetica.

Two posters in a row now who *cannot* or *will not* provide what Brown's platform is, other than high heeled shoes. "See how tall he is? Why he towers over everyone else just by teetering so high, and so he doesn't have to present facts or state clear policy and details, because he's so much better".

Getting back to The Rapture...

It's waaaaaaay too early in the campaign to be criticizing Brown for not being more visible.

Best you co-ordinate with the others under "the big tent".

Bob claims he is highly visible. Maybe he just comes in apparitions for those that believe in Him?

 

[Hopkins123]

Distinct whiffs of Trump apoligetica.

Two posters in a row now who *cannot* or *will not* provide what Brown's platform is, other than high heeled shoes. "See how tall he is? Why he towers over everyone else just by teetering so high, and so he doesn't have to present facts or state clear policy and details, because he's so much better".

Getting back to The Rapture...
Best you co-ordinate with the others under "the big tent".

Bob claims he is highly visible. Maybe he just comes in apparitions for those that believe in Him?

Meh. I guess for me it's less about what Patrick Brown is about; but more so knowing what Kathleeen Wynne's agenda is and objecting to it. I mean, isn't 16 years of one-party rule enough?

 

[steveintoronto]

Meh. I guess for me it's less about what Patrick Brown is about; but more so knowing what Kathleeen Wynne's agenda is and objecting to it. I mean, isn't 16 years of one-party rule enough?

Not if you have a sense of history and good government. When Brown has even an iota of the following, I might have some respect for the man. He's a midget in the big picture, and even smaller in the little picture:

How the Big Blue Machine dominated Ontario politics for more than four decades
Share
Steve Paikin
Published on Aug 04, 2016

[...]
That Aug. 4 election begat 42 consecutive years of Progressive Conservative dynasty. In 1948, Drew left Ontario politics to become the leader of the federal PC Party. But each time the Tory leadership changed, party members made the smart choice, replacing Drew with Leslie Frost, then John Robarts, and then Bill Davis. All three were shrewd politicians and capable administrators who kept the party popular with voters.

I was covering Queen's Park during Davis's term, and the joke was he was in competition with Albanian Communist dictator Enver Hoxha to see whose dynasty would last longer. Of course, Hoxha didn't have to worry about little things like elections. Davis won four of those.

In 1985, Davis retired, but rather than going for another younger, centrist leader as Tories always had, delegates chose the staunchly right-wing Frank Miller to be their new party chief. Miller was two years older than Davis and decidedly outside the traditional mainstream of Ontario moderate politics. Even though Miller won four more seats than the second place Liberals ̶ echoing the results of that 1943 election when the Tories won four more seats than the CCF ̶ Miller couldn't hold the confidence of the legislature, and the two opposition parties (under David Peterson and Bob Rae) combined forces to throw the Tories out. The 42-year-old dynasty had ended.
[...]

http://tvo.org/blog/current-affairs...d-ontario-politics-for-more-than-four-decades

Perhaps I'm old fashioned, but for some odd reason, I like to know the product before buying it...glossy brochures that say nothing don't do it.

 

[ADRM]

they have very little to pin on him and he continues to keep his cards close to his chest

This is a super interesting interpretation of "has offered no concrete policy views on which voters may judge him."

 

[ADRM]

The predominately progressive/liberal (perfect example: Martin Regg-Cohn) media

Liberal-elite media biases! Fake News! The horror!

When, oh God, when, will we finally have a holistic establishment to help us usher in social conservatism on a wide scale?! If only the silly Cadillac socialists understood how the world really works, then we'd have ourselves a province.

 

[steveintoronto]

Liberal-elite media biases! Fake News! The horror!

When, oh God, when, will we finally have a holistic establishment to help us usher in social conservatism on a wide scale?! If only the silly Cadillac socialists understood how the world really works, then we'd have ourselves a province.

The Trump parallels are beyond co-incidental. Also the consequences. These types of rants actually do *sensible conservatism* a massive dis-favour, as US conservatives especially are becoming aware, small and large 'c'.

 

[jje1000]

Huh. I thought we were supposed to be a green power manufacturing giant.

Siemens Wind Power to close Ontario turbine blade plant, cut 340 jobs

In 2010, Siemens began investing $20-million in the 253,000-square-foot facility after Ontario’s Liberals signed a $7-billion deal with a Samsung Group-led consortium to develop a green-energy cluster in the province, as part of a 600-megawatt wind-energy commitment.

Touted at the time as one of Canada’s biggest-ever green-energy bets, it drew criticism from other energy developers and provincial opposition members as both costly and potentially stifling to competition. The deal was renegotiated in 2013 after Samsung missed production deadlines.

In an e-mailed statement, Energy Minister Glenn Thibeault said that despite the closure, the province would continue to invest in clean technology. “While we are saddened by the news out of Tillsonburg, we are confident that as Ontario looks towards the future, green energy will remain an important part of both our electricity supply mix and our economy, supporting jobs and growth all across the province,” he wrote.

In June, the Ontario Society of Professional Engineers said it had calculated that the province was over-producing energy from clean sources including wind – to the tune of $1-billion worth in 2016 alone.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/rep...de-plant-340-jobs-to-be-lost/article35716643/

 

[Jasmine18]

I think the liberals need to be defeated and I have doubts many of the things she promised will be in place after the election or will cost a lot more in increased taxes.

I am not being anti Liberal, the past many years of liberal rule have shown this.

 

[ADRM]

I think the liberals need to be defeated and I have doubts many of the things she promised will be in place after the election or will cost a lot more in increased taxes.

I am not being anti Liberal, the past many years of liberal rule have shown this.

Which specific policies have shown that the current premier's promises will lead to higher taxes?

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

I care more about Toronto than about Ontario. If the PC's could bring themselves to support a pro-GTA agenda, then they would win the election and my vote handidly.

But they can't or won't, and as much as Wynne's Liberals 'need to be defeated', they really musn't. It doesn't serve our interests in Toronto and set us back yet again just when things are starting to get going.