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2018 Ontario Provincial Election Discussion

I see, so that was Wynne's doing? And don't forget the Charge of the Light Brigade too.
Wynne and her predecessors are due many criticisms, but Ontario's nuclear program has its basis in the Conservatives half a century ago.

Not only that:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/new-nuclear-reactors-not-in-ontario-s-future-1.1959328

So which way is it?

Wynne did sell off Hydro One for short team gains.

This will come back to bite Ontario in the ass.

We really can't compare ourselves to Quebec though. They are blessed with tons of hydroelectric power.

Going for greener energy is a good idea. Especially with the costs continuing to come down.

The problem is the Liberals just can't help themselves and always find ways to do things the most expensive way possible. They squander too much of our money so that they can pay back their donors.
 
Wynne did sell off Hydro One for short team gains.
The sale is questionable, and far more a Conservative approach.

But let's keep the discussion factual:
[The Province will remain the largest shareholder in Hydro One and is prohibited by law from reducing its ownership below 40 per cent. By law, no other shareholder or group of shareholders is permitted to own more than 10 per cent of the company.]

The long road to privatization of Hydro One
Adrian Morrow, Jacqueline Nelson and Sean Silcoff
The Globe and Mail
Published Friday, Mar. 13, 2015 7:21PM EDT

[...]
Privatization of government-owned entities has a mixed history in this country. It has worked for companies such as Potash Corp. of Saskatchewan and Canadian National Railway Co., while the long-term lease of Ontario’s Highway 407 to private interests has led to increased costs for consumers and less money for government. Some private power deals in Ontario – including the cancellations of two gas-fired power plants – have also added to electricity rates.

Ms. Wynne’s plan is certain to meet opposition from the unions representing Hydro One workers as well as the NDP, who characterize the plan as a proposal to enrich big business while depriving the province of a long-term revenue source.

The Premier must also please investors who argue the government should privatize the entire operation, giving stakeholders more control over the business. Hydro One also has enormous pension costs, with employees putting in only a fraction of the money needed to cover their benefits, with hydro ratepayers and the government picking up the rest. Many believe it will take a private owner to negotiate more forcefully with the unions.

Asked whether Ms. Wynne has the resolve to push forward where others have balked, Infrastructure Minister Brad Duguid said Friday: “This Premier has the steel to make these decisions. She’s determined to ensure that we get full value out of those assets, not just for the sake of doing so, but to make sure we have the ability to invest in building a stronger province.”

Staggering toward privatization

The roots of Ontario’s electricity privatization woes date back a generation, when Ontario Hydro was the province’s all-encompassing utility. In the early 1990s, power prices skyrocketed, along with the size of Ontario Hydro’s debt, due to massive cost overruns and delays in the construction of the Darlington nuclear facility east of Toronto. In 1993, the NDP government of Bob Rae froze energy prices and they remained frozen for nearly a decade. By 1999, Ontario Hydro’s $38.1-billion in debt accounted for about a third of total provincial borrowings.

Mike Harris promised sweeping changes to reform the electricity market when his Progressive Conservative Party swept to power in 1995. Under his watch, Ontario Hydro was split in two, with one part holding its generation assets (Ontario Power Generation) and the other owning its transmission business (Hydro One). Eventually, Hydro One became the province’s biggest distributor, buying utilities from many rural municipalities.
[...]
the electricity business in Alberta has been the wheelhouse of public companies and even foreign investors. Last year, Berkshire Hathaway Energy, the power and utility arm of Warren Buffett’s conglomerate, bought AltaLink, the province’s largest electrical transmission company.
[...]
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/rep...e-long-road-to-privatization/article23461789/
 
The sale is questionable, and far more a Conservative approach.

But let's keep the discussion factual:
[The Province will remain the largest shareholder in Hydro One and is prohibited by law from reducing its ownership below 40 per cent. By law, no other shareholder or group of shareholders is permitted to own more than 10 per cent of the company.]


https://www.theglobeandmail.com/rep...e-long-road-to-privatization/article23461789/

They make the law. They can change it any time they want.

This sale is the modern equivalent of the 407 sale.

And your google skills are weak. The government now owns less then 50 percent of Hydro One.
 
And your google skills are weak. The government now owns less then 50 percent of Hydro One.
Uh huh. How many fingers? Maybe get someone to help you with the math...
The Province will remain the largest shareholder in Hydro One and is prohibited by law from reducing its ownership below 40 per cent.
This sale is the modern equivalent of the 407 sale.
407 wasn't sold, it was leased. And whose blunder was that, Sherlock?
PC blunder over Highway 407 looms over Liberals on Hydro: Cohn
https://www.thestar.com/news/queens...ay-407-looms-over-liberals-on-hydro-cohn.html

I say a pox on all the parties, but you argue just against one. Biased much? When the present gaggle of incompetent neo-Cons can match the glorious regime of the Blue Machine, then they get my vote.

Gosh, maybe Brown might actually state something quotable? Maybe not at this rate.

And here's something to turn your bulb on Narduch, perhaps cue some bright ideas?

Ontario Tories release plan to partially privatize hydro

The Canadian Press Published Monday, May 14, 2012 7:54PM EDT
TORONTO - The Progressive Conservatives announced plans Monday to privatize Ontario Power Generation and Hydro One, saying it's time government stopped running the province's electricity system.

The Tories want to open the two huge utilities to private investments in a staged process, starting by offering a minority stake to Ontario-based public sector pension funds.

"The goal is actually to make our energy system about affordability and competitiveness, to make sure that businesses have the confidence to invest in our province," PC Leader Tim Hudak told reporters.
[...]
"I'll have more details in our white paper recommendations, but part of it will call for new investment in OPG and Hydro One through public sector pension funds to start."

The Tories plan to release their white paper on energy issues Tuesday, saying the Liberals' policies, especially expensive subsidies for green energy, are driving rates up to unaffordable levels.

The minority stake sales of OPG and Hydro One would be followed by an initial public offering of shares to both institutional and retail investors, Hudak told the Ontario Power Summit last week.

Hudak wouldn't promise that his plan will lower electricity rates, but said Monday he hopes to get prices under control.
[...]
http://toronto.ctvnews.ca/ontario-tories-release-plan-to-partially-privatize-hydro-1.809706
 
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You are linking to a 2 year old article.

Last May they sold off more of Hydro One. Currently the government holds 49.9%.

Eventually the number will be lowered to 47.4% with the sale of 2.5% of shares to First Nations.

But don't worry, continue to insult other posters, even when they prove you wrong. It really makes you look good.
 
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You are linking to a 2 year old article.

Last May they sold off more of Hydro One. Currently the government holds 49.9%.

Eventually the number will be lowered to 47.4% with the sale of 2.5% of shares to First Nations.

But don't worry, continue to insult other posters, even when they prove you wrong. It really makes you look good.
You insult yourself by failing to accurately read:
The Province will remain the largest shareholder in Hydro One and is prohibited by law from reducing its ownership below 40 per cent.

Of course the quote was from a previous Con regime. You're the one claiming it's all Wynne's fault, when the Cons themselves espoused it before she did.

Is this your problem?
[The Province will remain the largest shareholder in Hydro One and is prohibited by law from reducing its ownership below 40 per cent. By law, no other shareholder or group of shareholders is permitted to own more than 10 per cent of the company.] Perhaps you don't know the difference between "share" and "shareholder"? "40%" share is four times larger than any other @ "10%".

If you don't understand math, that's not a shortcoming on my part, it's one on yours. What the statement renders is that @ 40%, the Province will hold a minority of the total number of shares, but still the Province, at a minimum, owns four times the shares as any other shareholder.

The point you make clear is that most of the ranting against Wynne and the Libs is based upon reactionary misunderstanding, not attributable facts.

I repeat, as I've stated many times: Given a better OntCon party, and a leader who can go on record of what he/she stands for, and state figures, and be believable doing that, would get my vote and that of many others.

Where is that candidate? That's exactly why Wynne's poll results are starting to bounce back and match the PCs. Posters have been challenged time and again to post what Brown's platform is.

The answer is...

(...The sound of crickets chirping...)
 
You can move the goal posts all you like.

And I wasn't even talking about the Conservatives.

It is possible to be critical of the Ontario Liberals and still lean left politically. I know some people on this forum hate that though.
 
Why didnt Ontario Partner with Quebec to get cheap energy

Simple the liberals dont believe in cheap energy as they dont care about the average persons pocketbook
 
Why didnt Ontario Partner with Quebec to get cheap energy

Simple the liberals dont believe in cheap energy as they dont care about the average persons pocketbook

They actually did make a deal with Quebec recently:

https://www.thestar.com/news/queens...-in-bid-to-defuse-anger-over-hydro-bills.html

The problem though is that Electricity doesn't travel well over long distances.

That's why the cancellation of the 2 gas plants burns so much. Its more efficient to generate power closer to where it is used.
 
The problem though is that Electricity doesn't travel well over long distances.
I'm sorry? Even over hundreds of miles, the loss is typically less than a few percentile. UHV DC displays even less loss. If you're worried about losses, they're further along the chain, much of it typically at the distribution and final user stage.

The problem for importing more energy from Quebec is lack of transmission *capacity*, not xmssn loss. Quebec has one of the most modern and efficient xmssn systems in the world, much of it UHV DC with solid-state converters, the result of the cataclysmic ice-storm a few decades back.

http://www.power-technology.com/features/featurethe-worlds-longest-power-transmission-lines-4167964/
 
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they could easily transfer down the highway 11 corridor

it is a lot of money but is much better sense then the endless billions in nukes
 
Well I think the auditor put the cost of the Liberal energy fiasco at $37B, and that was for the period of 2007 to 2015 (or thereabouts). There's also the locked in future costs. This money won't grow on trees.

So your argument is "look, I really think it'll be a problem"?
 

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