2018 Ontario Provincial Election Discussion

[kEiThZ]

Why would Ford Run on a detailed policy plan? All he has to say is I am gonna bring jobs and lower taxes and stop the liberal corruption.

I know, I get it. People don't care to critically examine that which they are being fed. It's too "hard". Gimmicky jingles and a bit of marketing is all it takes to get people to eat up whatever crap you're serving these days.

Ford is learning. Look at the last two elections. What killed the Tories? Policies they proposed, which promptly took the spotlight off the Liberals.

Tory, for example, thought he was doing something good extending school vouchers to religious schools. People forget that Canada has just been called ito by the UN for being discriminatory with religious school funding. Best intention cost him the race.

Hudak, propose 100 000 job cuts. Most of it through attrition and hiring freeze. Stiff proposal. But not actually that far from the net effect of the Drummond Report. Well, look at how the Liberals painted him.

The best thing Ford can do is not release policy till the night before the first debate. Drop breadcrumbs along the way. That's what I'd do if I was in his shoes.

 

[sixrings]

i dont even think hes going to drop breadcrumbs... the whole campaign will be look how bad those elitist lefty liberals are. They over think everything and in the process screw everything up. And then he is going to sell to the common people that a commoner like himself (hes only common in intelligence by the way hes worth millions) would do better at the job. Then the common people will dream of only good things like subways, subways, subways, and ignore any logic and the fact that this man is amoral and vote for him. At least that's what I think he hopes happens.

 

[Admiral Beez]

This really should have been Wynne’s election. Why didn’t she just focus on undoing the perceived insider pork and corruption of the McGuinty years (like insider alternative energy deals) and leading, not undermining the gas plant investigation? Why not focus on economic growth and putting the tools in place for private business success (energy costs, taxes, etc.)? Raising minimum wage is good, and we'll overdue, but why not make it revenue neutral for businesses by offsetting govt-incurred costs elsewhere? Why not focus on stopping McGuinty’s deficits and instead bring the province to surplus or balanced budgets? Why not be Ontario's champion against other provinces and the feds, like we see from Alberta and Quebec’s premiers?

Had Wynne done the above she’d be walking to victory. Instead, we get a focus on social engineering, insider energy contracts, massive spending increases and a growing intrusion of government into our lives, with Wynne sowing the fields of anger and frustration needed for populism to take hold.

 

[pman]

We also get unsustainable finances. Wynne’s rejig of our electricity bills was at least somewhat transparent: she gave us short-term price reductions before the election, financed by long-term debt which will lead to post-election price increases even larger than they would have been. You can argue it’s stupid policy and cynical politics, but at least she was upfront about the trade off. But Wynne is running the entire government on the same basis. Goodies today, but the bill comes tomorrow, and it’s an increasingly scary bill.

https://www.cdhowe.org/media-release/ontario-unsustainable-fiscal-course

 

[Admiral Beez]

We also get unsustainable finances. Wynne’s rejig of our electricity bills was at least somewhat transparent: she gave us short-term price reductions before the election

And it makes no sense. With nuclear and hydro power Ontario makes more electricity than we need. With surplus of supply we should be reducing prices to increase demand. Instead of spending on wind farms (with guaranteed artificially high prices and insider Liberal deals) we should be investing maintaining our nuclear energy capability - that is the source of cheap electricity. As for nuclear waste, we've got a near empty country to safely and responsibly bury it in.

I wish provinces were never allowed to carry debt, same as municipalities. If you need money for a capital project, you raise a levy to cover it, then cut it when the project is done. If you need more money for operating budgets, you raise revenue through either higher taxes or productivity gains. In what premier's mind is the below debt growth sustainable?

 

[PinkLucy]

The announcements are coming fast and furious. https://news.ontario.ca/opo/en/2018...-addictions-care-for-every-stage-of-life.html

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

And it makes no sense. With nuclear and hydro power Ontario makes more electricity than we need. With surplus of supply we should be reducing prices to increase demand. Instead of spending on wind farms (with guaranteed artificially high prices and insider Liberal deals) we should be investing maintaining our nuclear energy capability - that is the source of cheap electricity. As for nuclear waste, we've got a near empty country to safely and responsibly bury it in.

I wish provinces were never allowed to carry debt, same as municipalities. If you need money for a capital project, you raise a levy to cover it, then cut it when the project is done. If you need more money for operating budgets, you raise revenue through either higher taxes or productivity gains. In what premier's mind is the below debt growth sustainable

Municipalities are allowed to carry debt - they are just not allowed to run deficits. As to the power situation - remember now is different from the early to mid 2000s when a lot of the decisions around power generation were made (which are done in response to policy decisions made in the 80s). Recall the push for energy efficiency and the retrenchment of heavy industry? Both helped to push demand broadly lower.

AoD

 

[JWBF]

I think we need another "Cut The Waste!" challenge.

 

[PinkLucy]

Doug seems to be following in Rob's footsteps, i.e., we have a spending problem not a revenue problem. So I don't see Doug and his ilk ever talking about raising taxes -- we all know that's not popular. Doug will continue to trumpet that he is going to find efficiencies. I am sure some money can be saved on pencils, but there aren't enough inefficiencies to fund programs like dental health and mental health, both of which I personally strongly support, in large part because of my work and life experience where I have seen the impacts on both quality of life and employability.

 

[steveintoronto]

@Admiral Beez : Nuclear isn't the cheapest option, by any means. And yes, Wynne is an ogre, eats dead babies, and scratches her finger nails on the blackboard. But we know what we're getting with her.

Had the Cons elected someone relatively trustworthy and intelligent, it would have been 'no-contest'. Even Barrie Slick Boy Slim would have sailed to victory. And he had a platform put together by the Party.

Dougie? Phhhhh....he just has a party dancing with himself.

And there's a shit-load of turds to come out about Dougie yet. You'll note that the Stun is the only newspaper backing him. Huge surprise there. Even the Pest is agog at the thought of his being allowed to drive the car all by himself.

 

[jje1000]

Interesting viewpoints that tie into this notion of a populist uprising:

COMMENTARY: Doug Ford’s common touch might outflank Kathleen Wynne’s statist compassion

Ford is what politicos call a HOAG – a Hell Of A Guy. He’s the guy you can have a beer with, the guy without pretensions, the guy who will take your call when you need help. HOAGs are an old breed in politics – former Ontario premier Mike Harris was a HOAG, the late Alberta Ralph Klein was a HOAG, even former Prime Minister Jean Chretien — “le p’tit gars de Shawinigan” — was a HOAG. HOAGs do well when running against “elites,” which is exactly how Ford positioned himself in the leadership – and which he will continue to do running against Wynne.

Finally, Ford can say that he will care – just in a different way. Rather than use the levers of government to care for people, he can argue that he trusts the “little platoons” of society – the family, the neighborhood association, the church, the mosque, the girl scouts. In short, the issue won’t be that the Liberals care and the PCs don’t – it will be: what is the best way to care? Top down, or bottom up? For a guy who eschews elites and hundred-dollar words, Ford might end up fighting the most philosophical election the province has seen in decades. And the Liberals might need to speak a new language.

https://globalnews.ca/news/4095126/tasha-kheiriddin-doug-ford-can-outflank-kathleen-wynne/

Doug Ford, PCs find traction with affordability, accountability message, poll finds
Accountability, affordability, and help for small business are messages that resonate with electorate, finds Campaign Research

Doug Ford is finding traction with Ontario voters by talking about government accountability, affordability and cutting waste, suggests a new survey examining why the PC party is ahead in the polls.

At the same time, Premier Kathleen Wynne’s key talking points — boosting the minimum wage and pharmacare — appear at the bottom of a list of priorities for the electorate, says Campaign Research based on its recent poll of voters.

Accountability was the top policy area, rated as “extremely important” by 61 per cent of those surveyed, followed by accountability (60 per cent), and improving health care and cutting government waste (tied at 59 per cent).

Boosting the minimum wage was extremely important to just 22 per cent of those polled, with support for the sex-ed curriculum and support for cap-and-trade/carbon tax tied for last (17 per cent).

https://www.thestar.com/news/queens...bility-accountability-message-poll-finds.html

Link to survey info:
https://www.campaignresearch.ca/sin...s-PC-Party-so-far-ahead-at-this-point-in-time


Also a pretty aggressive (?) Wynne interview by the CBC of all things:
http://www.cbc.ca/player/play/1190319683917

 

[steveintoronto]

^I take it you know who's behind Campaign Research?

 

[jje1000]

Kouvalis of course, but it is an interesting assertion (especially that the Star has also chosen to report this & that those issues of minimum wage et. al were polling well previously)- I wonder if this priority list will change over the next few months.

 

[PinkLucy]

Not having seen the poll itself, I wonder how people were asked about their priorities, i.e., a write-in response, a random list, an alphabetized list, etc? In long lists, people tend to pick the top choices rather than reading through the entire list and ranking it. Or a partial list where you can write in another priority that isn't listed and where people tend to choose what is already listed rather than adding in another choice of their own. So much is about methodology.

 

[Admiral Beez]

And there's a shit-load of turds to come out about Dougie yet. You'll note that the Stun is the only newspaper backing him. Huge surprise there. Even the Pest is agog at the thought of his being allowed to drive the car all by himself.

Can we stop with the portmanteu? It makes me think of Trump voters and Fox News comments sections.

What are you trying to convey by using Stun and Pest? Are you suggesting their readers are deplorables?

What's next, are we to start using libtard here at UT?