2018 Ontario Provincial Election Discussion

[Bayer]

Surely if you include the debt in the public expenses per capita, that can't be right.
Not saying I disagree, just not sure you included debt in that idea of a figure.

I was just repeating what they have said, but you would only include the interest expense. In that case, according to the Financial Accountability Office, our revenues were the lowest per capita and our expenses, including interest on the debt, the second lowest per capita in 2014-2015. There must be more recent data though.

Regardless of what people seem to think of the Wynne government, Ontario is very efficient compared to most other provincial governments. I would rather stay that it is a lot stingier, but then I'm left-wing!

 

[SunriseChampion]

Right, interest cost only. Interesting, didn't know that.

Well, does this mean I should be paying more? No problem, so long as it goes increased train service, better mental health services, and reverting to the old government logo.

Are our taxation rates themselves that low or are there that many people skimping on heaving their weight?

 

[M636RF]

Even the "higher minimum wage just leads to automation" argument, while intuitively logical, isn't backed up by much evidence.

I wouldn't say there's no evidence, but I think its too early to tell. Consider fast food chains testing out touch-screens that allow you to place orders. While many of these technologies are still in their early stages, I find it hard to believe companies won't ramp up their development if labor costs continue to increase.

Check out this recent article from the UK: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/jan/04/fears-minimum-wage-rise-more-jobs-risk-automation

 

[Northern Light]

Even the "higher minimum wage just leads to automation" argument, while intuitively logical, isn't backed up by much evidence.

Keeping in mind that I support the minimum wage increase; I fully support the idea that it will further investments in productivity.

But it would be my anticipation (hope) that the reduced labour is offset mostly as a reduction of High School aged teens working less during the school year, the same for college age, assuming rising participation rates, as well as greater vacation time.

That said, I was at a Cineplex today to see 'Darkest Hour'....no cashiers at all, not accepting cash for tickets, all-kiosk.

I expect to see more of that in the near future.

That, to me, is not inherently bad.

Ticket-selling is a repetitive, simple, task, easily done by machine.

My only qualm is I like ask % sold when I buy my ticket so I know how full the cinema will be, and how soon to get in to the auditorium.

But that can easily be added to the machines.

This change will reduce human work hours, as is to be expected.

Some will be offset by displacement (new and different jobs); part will have to be offset by fewer work hours, at some point.

The only question is how the latter is affected.

None of the preceding alters the notion, that people should not work for starvation wages.

Instead, it makes the case that starvation wages inhibit investments in productivity that should have come several years ago.

 

[Admiral Beez]

I wouldn't say there's no evidence, but I think its too early to tell. Consider fast food chains testing out touch-screens that allow you to place orders. While many of these technologies are still in their early stages, I find it hard to believe companies won't ramp up their development if labor costs continue to increase.

Check out this recent article from the UK: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/jan/04/fears-minimum-wage-rise-more-jobs-risk-automation

AFAICT, those kiosks at McDonalds are an abysmal failure. I rarely see anyone use them, and when they are used it’s like watching an old lady use an ATM. One time my local McDonald’s had a greeter pushing people to use the kiosk, and after seeing how long it took, I got back in my car and used the drive through.

 

[Jasmine18]

There is nothing wrong with raising the min wage.

There is something wrong with the reckless nature the liberals have done it, with little concern of the costs but only concern in winning votes.

Wish they are defeated or through out to a minority govt.

 

[Bayer]

There is nothing wrong with raising the min wage.

There is something wrong with the reckless nature the liberals have done it, with little concern of the costs but only concern in winning votes.

Wish they are defeated or through out to a minority govt.

What bothers me is how some people are so much more concerned with businesses now than they were with low-income earners when the minimum wage was frozen for 8 long years in the late 1990s and early 2000s. The Liberals could very well have waited and made pharmacare, minimum wage increases and rent control changes a part of their platform for the next election. Instead, they implemented them right away - and you bet I'm voting for them.

Even the new minimum wage is not enough to live on in Toronto. There is nothing reckless in imposing it; it was the very least the government could do.

 

[Juan_Lennon416]

What bothers me is how some people are so much more concerned with businesses now than they were with low-income earners when the minimum wage was frozen for 8 long years in the late 1990s and early 2000s. The Liberals could very well have waited and made pharmacare, minimum wage increases and rent control changes a part of their platform for the next election. Instead, they implemented them right away - and you bet I'm voting for them.

Even the new minimum wage is not enough to live on in Toronto. There is nothing reckless in imposing it; it was the very least the government could do.

Voting for the Liberals again? You are what's wrong with the people in this city and province. The clowns do nonsense and people like you turn away and re-elect them. No wonder why we don't see real change (lol). This year should be an opportunity to clean house in Ontario and in Toronto!

Ontario Liberals need to lose and majority of Toronto Council needs to go!!!

 

[Bayer]

Voting for the Liberals again? You are what's wrong with the people in this city and province. The clowns do nonsense and people like you turn away and re-elect them. No wonder why we don't see real change (lol). This year should be an opportunity to clean house in Ontario and in Toronto!

Ontario Liberals need to lose and majority of Toronto Council needs to go!!!

What's wrong is people caught in their circular reasoning about Liberals having to "go" basically because they dislike them for reasons that are not very compelling compared to the positive aspects of their policies. There are a lot of things I don't like in this province - for instance, the fact that no new social housing is getting built, that long-term care is a shambles, and frankly that provincial taxes are too low for everything the province has to pay for, but there is no way at all the Conservatives are going to solve those problems, and the NDP doesn't know what it really wants.

 

[Juan_Lennon416]

Giving the NDP a minority government won't hurt. The Liberals need to lose so that they could re-group in the corner and come back stronger.

 

[WislaHD]

AFAICT, those kiosks at McDonalds are an abysmal failure. I rarely see anyone use them, and when they are used it’s like watching an old lady use an ATM. One time my local McDonald’s had a greeter pushing people to use the kiosk, and after seeing how long it took, I got back in my car and used the drive through.

I don't know where your sample size is from.

From my experience, everyone uses the kiosks in the Eaton Centre McDonalds, as well as their flagship location on Yonge just south of Gerrard.

I walk by one or the other essentially every other day. (Not a fan of their food, but I drink their coffee )

 

[Admiral Beez]

There is nothing wrong with raising the min wage.

There is something wrong with the reckless nature the liberals have done it, with little concern of the costs but only concern in winning votes.

Wish they are defeated or through out to a minority govt.

The Libs have been in power for over a decade, if they cared about min wage, why haven’t they increased it gradually over their mandate?

 

[Bayer]

The Libs have been in power for over a decade, if they cared about min wage, why haven’t they increased it gradually over their mandate?

They have. After more than 8 years with no increase under the PC, t was $6.85/hour when they came to power. They increased it to $7.15 in Feb. 2004, then had an increase every year until 2010, when it reached $10.25. Then it got to $11 in 2014, and there were more consumer price index-based increases every year after that. As I mentioned before, why do people care more about businesses who have to swallow a large increase now than about poor people who were stuck with having less and less money every year under the Conservatives?

 

[Hopkins123]

The Libs have been in power for over a decade, if they cared about min wage, why haven’t they increased it gradually over their mandate?

Haven't they though? It's doubled since they came into power. I remember my first job in 2005 I was paid around $7/hr.

 

[Jasmine18]

They have. After more than 8 years with no increase under the PC, t was $6.85/hour when they came to power. They increased it to $7.15 in Feb. 2004, then had an increase every year until 2010, when it reached $10.25. Then it got to $11 in 2014, and there were more consumer price index-based increases every year after that. As I mentioned before, why do people care more about businesses who have to swallow a large increase now than about poor people who were stuck with having less and less money every year under the Conservatives?

Because we dont have to act like idiots and go extremes...why Not increase the min wage to 15 bucks over 4 years, instead of 2... I doubt there be any negative effects unlike now.

Many businesses are going to cut down everything to the bare basics where the actual increase in wages will end up meaingless for many min wage workers now. Reduced Hours, reduction of full time work, reduction in benefits. I actully work at a resturant as a waitres and now get paid less hours thanks to the Liberals.

It was a fine balance before and this min wage increase could have been spread out over 2 more years without much impact.

The only people who end in the upside the most is the liberal party as the liberal party only cares for it self.