2014 Municipal Election: Toronto Transit Plans

[pman]

Agree with this. I wish they would have at least considered an alignment where both tracks were on one side of the street. Instead of in the middle.

In the downtown core, streetcars would be so much more efficient with curbside placement. Even better if they execute that with more one-way streets in the core.

+1

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Two polls came out Friday. Forum put Doug at 35, and Mainstreet put him at 18 with Chow at 30 and Tory at 51.

There's no indication that Ford has a chance. I can't imagine basing one's vote on keeping the guy out of office.

Sure he did. Back when he made his attempted coup on Waterfront Toronto. An elevated monorail to the Portlands.
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Olivia does not have 30 percent right now. The second poll is an outlier.


And I mean a serious plan, the monorail was never getting off the ground.

 

[rbt]

And I mean a serious plan, the monorail was never getting off the ground.

I think that was the plan. Kill the current proposal and agency (if possible) and not replace it with anything that would actually happen. See the new TCHC board (repairs way behind schedule) and Finch Subway.

Getting the public to buy into a magical unfunded fantasy is just as good as an outright cancellation, but has better optics.


It happens elsewhere too; for example replacing the moon landing with a mission to mars. It's even possible to pretend to fund it but using terms so onerous on your successors that they'll be forced to cancel it (and look bad) for you.

I've seen it in private companies too. Senior Manager creates a fantastical project, leaves company for a better paying job using the project as a selling point at job interviews (assumed benefits stated as fact, but possible), and the new guy immediately kills the project because it is already way over budget and barely started.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

I think that was the plan. Kill the current proposal and agency (if possible) and not replace it with anything that would actually happen. See the new TCHC board (repairs way behind schedule) and Finch Subway.

Getting the public to buy into a magical unfunded fantasy is just as good as an outright cancellation, but has better optics.


It happens elsewhere too; for example replacing the moon landing with a mission to mars. It's even possible to pretend to fund it but using terms so onerous on your successors that they'll be forced to cancel it (and look bad) for you.

I've seen it in private companies too. Senior Manager creates a fantastical project, leaves company for a better paying job using the project as a selling point at job interviews (assumed benefits stated as fact, but possible), and the new guy immediately kills the project because it is already way over budget and barely started.

That was probably the case and I believe if Doug had it his way he would just cancel the East Bayfront LRT too. We'll see with the Finch subway. The plan is just to Steeles right now. I thought it would change post election but that's not the case.

 

[rbt]

We'll see with the Finch subway. The plan is just to Steeles right now. I thought it would change post election but that's not the case.

Are you referring to the Yonge extension?

I was referring to Ford's East/West subway line (roughly 3km in length) replacing the Finch West LRT proposal. His intention isn't to build a subway, it's to cancel the LRT.

 

[kEiThZ]

I like the Smart Track idea. Sure it's not perfect but IMO it's a damn good place to start. Plus, Liberty Village NEEDS reliable public transportation into the core. I think out of the plans proposed, the Smart Track proposal has the most chance of actually going somewhere. Considering Wynne got elected on a transportation/infrastructure agenda, it's my opinion that she would be totally into partnering with the city on a plan like this.

I actually think the main plus for the idea is the mutability of it. It can emerge as Tory envisions or can be changed into some combination of GO electrification with TTC fare integration and Tory can still claim victory. That latitude is exactly why I see it as a feasible idea.

 

[nfitz]

It would be like John Tory attending a UT forum. nfitz would call him a racist.

I've never called John Tory a racist, nor am I likely to. I don't know why you are libelling me so. I would ask him about his history supporting racists, and how he could justify that. But that's an entirely different.

From a strictly political perspective, why bother with any audience that will not entertain any of the merits of your ideas.

From blind the love fest going on here at UT, I'd think it would be a safe place for Tory. It's not like he isn't be challenged elsewhere. I find it amusing that I'm skewered when I attack John Tory, but no one says boo when I attack Rob Ford, Doug Ford, Olivia Chow, or Karen Stintz.

 

[nfitz]

Two polls came out Friday. Forum put Doug at 35, and Mainstreet put him at 18 with Chow at 30 and Tory at 51.

Olivia does not have 30 percent right now. The second poll is an outlier.

The Friday Forum poll put Chow at 19, an the second poll put her at 30. Today's Ipsos Reid poll put Chow at 29% - almost exactly the same as the second Friday poll, and put Tory at 43%.

Why do you think the second Friday poll is the outlier. The Forum poll seems to be the outlier, with the other two being almost identical. It doesn't even agree with Forum's previous poll a few days earlier, that put Chow at 25% of decided voters.

And I mean a serious plan, the monorail was never getting off the ground.

Why do you think Doug Ford would ever come out with a serious transit plan that was never getting of the ground.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

It's great to see Chow surging in the polls again. She's 10 points over the last Forum poll

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Are you referring to the Yonge extension?

I was referring to Ford's East/West subway line (roughly 3km in length) replacing the Finch West LRT proposal. His intention isn't to build a subway, it's to cancel the LRT.

Yes. Miscommunication on my part. But I agree, he wanted to cancel Finch West. I have no idea why because it is more deserving then even sheppard.

The Friday Forum poll put Chow at 19, an the second poll put her at 30. Today's Ipsos Reid poll put Chow at 29% - almost exactly the same as the second Friday poll, and put Tory at 43$.

Why do you think the second Friday poll is the outlier. The Forum poll seems to be the outlier, with the other two being almost identical. It doesn't even agree with Forum's previous poll a few days earlier, that put Chow at 25% of decided voters.

Because Olivia has been at low-mid 20s for two weeks now.

Why do you think Doug Ford would ever come out with a serious transit plan that was never getting of the ground.

This is the election and they are playing for keeps.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Because Olivia has been at low-mid 20s for two weeks now.


.

Well we have two recent polls with Ms. Chow at 30. So....?

 

[nfitz]

Because Olivia has been at low-mid 20s for two weeks now.

Which means that the one showing the high teens must be an outlier. Does it make any sense for Chow to lose support to Doug? I don't think the Chow supporters are the ones about to jump to Doug.

And low to mid-20s of decided voters? Forum last week was 25% Chow. Nanos the week before was 26% with Solnacki still in. I don't think there's been a poll yet with Chow lower than 25, most others were closer to 30, or higher, other than that Forum poll from last Friday, which you don't think is an outlier.

This is the election and they are playing for keeps.

Never in Ford history has a candidate come out with a serious transit plan that was going to actually get off the ground. Why would now being any different. I'm not even convinced Doug wants to win the election.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Well we have two recent polls with Ms. Chow at 30. So....?

Which means that the one showing the high teens must be an outlier. Does it make any sense for Chow to lose support to Doug? I don't think the Chow supporters are the ones about to jump to Doug.

And low to mid-20s of decided voters? Forum last week was 25% Chow. Nanos the week before was 26% with Solnacki still in. I don't think there's been a poll yet with Chow lower than 25, most others were closer to 30, or higher, other than that Forum poll from last Friday, which you don't think is an outlier.

Never in Ford history has a candidate come out with a serious transit plan that was going to actually get off the ground. Why would now being any different. I'm not even convinced Doug wants to win the election.

You guys think Olivia has gained 7 to 10 percent of support in 5 days huh? Ford did push the ridiculous Scarborough subway through.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

The polls indicate as much.

 

[TOareaFan]

robyndoolittle ‏@robyndoolittle 2h

A new Ipsos poll - the first since #FordSwap2014 - has John Tory at 43%, Olivia Chow at 29% and Doug Ford at 28% http://globalnews.ca/news/1566237/john-tory-opening-up-big-lead-over-olivia-chow-doug-ford-poll/ …