2014 Municipal Election: Toronto Transit Plans

[pstogios]

There is a constant stream of misinformation from all campaigns to each other I find, which spreads online and takes a life on its own.

That's why a direct quote (as above) is by far the best source.

 

[salsa]

Let's here and now stop this fallacy.

http://www.thestar.com/news/city_hal...oes_again.html

he said Monday that he does want construction on the two LRTs to happen as planned: Finch from 2016 to 2020, Sheppard from 2017 to 2021. And he said the suggestion that he would reallocate the federal and provincial cash to his SmartTrack is a “total fabrication.”
“They’ve allocated it to those projects. I have no intention of asking them to switch it to anything else,” Tory said in an interview.
“I want the LRTs to proceed,” he said. “I will move them forward. I have no problem with them proceeding.”

Well that's new. What took him so long to finally say something/change his position? Why are they still not included on his transit map? And why is there absolutely no mention of LRT in his One Toronto Transit Plan (pdf)?

I'm fed up with always having to guess what his positions are, and what he actually intends to do as mayor.

There is a constant stream of misinformation from all campaigns to each other I find, which spreads online and takes a life on its own

That's why a direct quote (as above) is by far the best source.

Speaking of misinformation, check out these direct quotes posted yesterday on Tory's website:

NDP candidate Olivia Chow is determined to move Toronto backwards by cancelling funded and approved transit plans, including her latest scheme to cut out several GO Transit Regional Express Rail (“RER”) lines slated for development.

“Instead of getting on board with plans that have been debated and settled, Olivia Chow chooses to put a stick in the eye of the provincial and federal governments, holding up the transit development we so badly need,” John Tory said today.

Olivia Chow’s approach will literally force commuters onto the roads while she re-designs provincial, federal and city transit projects. Chow wants to take us back by re-opening old debates, including promising to scrap the Scarborough Subway Extension project, which is funded and supported by all three levels of government. Now, she makes no mention of all-day, two-way, regional rail service on Milton, Barrie, Stouffville, and Richmond Hill lines.

Tory has no right to complain about "total fabrications".

 

[ehlow]

Well that's new. What took him so long to finally say something/change his position? Why are they still not included on his transit map? And why is there absolutely no mention of LRT in his One Toronto Transit Plan (pdf)?

I'm fed up with always having to guess what his positions are, and what he actually intends to do as mayor.

There's a difference between not mentioning them, not promoting/defending them vs. actually cancelling them.

It's clearly not part of his message. If anybody brings it up at a debate, he will probably immediately deflect & start talking about "smart track" instead.

Speaking of misinformation, check out these direct quotes posted yesterday on Tory's website:

Tory has no right to complain about "total fabrications".

Yeah, both are guilty of doing it. Chow also didn't mention the Sheppard and Finch LRTs earlier, the only message was the Scarborough LRT & bus service.

The campaigns usually choose specific talking points/issues and ignore everything that falls outside of it.

 

[pstogios]

I'm fed up with always having to guess what his positions are, and what he actually intends to do as mayor.

Then it's a good thing you can exercise your franchise and vote for someone else. Just don't expect that someone else not to engage in political posturing.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

John is just saying everything any anything to get elected Salsa. He's the most inoffensive candidate. Everything to everyone

 

[salsa]

Then it's a good thing you can exercise your franchise and vote for someone else. Just don't expect that someone else not to engage in political posturing.

That being said, I will be voting for Soknacki. He speaks the truth, says the right things, and has never been inconsistent with his policies.

John is just saying everything any anything to get elected salsa. He's the most inoffensive candidate. Everything to everyone

No he's not. I was open minded enough to consider him earlier, but he pissed me off very quickly on almost every issue.

- Smart track: The basic idea is good, but there are too many problems with his plan which I don't fell like rehashing again. The Liberals promised to do the same thing and more within 10 years.

- Relief line: This is the number one priority for the TTC and Metrolinx. Tory supported it, until he didn't.

- LRT: Until I hear an explicit endorsement of Finch and Sheppard LRT in either his policy papers, transit map, or from his own mouth (not his spokesperson), why should I trust that he won't try to delay them. Only now he appears to somewhat backtrack on this one, however this really shouldn't have been debated in the first place. Who is he to decide which funded transit projects are to be prioritized.

- Scarborough subway: While Tory still wants to debate LRTs, why is there is no debate on this subway extension, for which his Smart Track will have significant implications on the need for the subway in the first place.

- Buses: I was excited to hear about the TTC's proposed service improvements. Too bad Tory was the only candidate to slam the proposal because of the cost (which he also tries to exaggerate), and yet he has no problem spending billions on his Smart Track and suburban subways. His platform doesn't say much about buses at all, except adding a few more express routes.

- Transit funding: With Ford on his way out, now was supposed to be a good time to have a honest discussion about how to fund the transit we all want. Dozens of ideas were proposed by expert panels a few months ago, informed by best practices in other cities around the world. But Tory is having none of that. He wants to continue the big lie that transit can be funded by the private sector's deep pockets, without a dime from taxpayers. In his case, he picked Tax Increment Financing to do the magic, and of course it's complete bull.

- Eglinton Connects: Despite strong support from local residents and businesses, Tory is against it. "I have said all along that any proposal that will add to road congestion by reducing lanes of traffic is a non-starter in my books." It's sucks that some politicians are still pandering to the car in this day and age.

- Cycling: So far not a peep. Even when the media asks him if he supports the Richmond and Adelaide bike lanes, he rambles on and on without answering the freaking question. "My priority from day one as mayor is going to be to … keep traffic moving in this city, and I am in favour of making opportunities available for cyclists to get around the city too, because that will help, in its own way, to get traffic moving, too. But I want to look at the results of discussions that are going on today and other days and make sure that whatever we do, we are not putting additional obstructions in the way of people getting around in this city .............". In other words, he supports the interests of cyclists, as long as those interests are ones shared by motorists.

- Gardiner expressway: Like with everything else, "I will not support any solution that extends people’s commute times", so right off the bat he eliminates almost every alternative solution other than keeping the damn thing. Forget about what the traffic studies have actually said. Forget about the waterfront, transit, pedestrians and cyclists, the environment, and urban planning goals. It's all about the car.

- Business background: Tory often boasts about his business credentials, but doesn't really say much about what he actually did. For one, he was the CEO of Canada's most hated company (Rogers). It's something to keep in mind the next time you get ripped off on your monthly bill or experience poor customer service. Unfortunately he lacks experience at city hall, and it shows. For example, he doesn't seem to realize that as mayor, implementing smart track is out of his control because it's not his jurisdiction. Metrolinx owns the tracks, and they are in charge of regional transit and electrification.

- Island airport expansion: In typical Tory fashion, his position on this one is inconclusive. But apparently his son is a registered lobbyist and has ties with Private Air, which operates at the island airport and may stand to benefit from the expansion. If Tory becomes mayor, he could be legally prohibited from weighing in on the Island airport under the conflict of interest act. So imagine a mayor that cannot provide leadership on one of the most important issues facing the new council. But given that Tory is pro-business and on the wrong side of everything, I suspect he would be in favour of expansion.

 

[andrewpmk]

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...arttrack_on_track_for_sevenyear_delivery.html

Tory claims that he can still build "SmartTrack" in the Richview Corridor on Eglinton, though a few short sections might have to be underground. I thought that a lot of land had been sold off to housing developers here, so this was impossible without a lot of tunneling.

If this happens (replacing the western portion of Eglinton LRT) this really makes the idea of making Eglinton LRT questionable. With the western portion replaced with GO, this means almost all of the LRT section is the Golden Mile big box stores east of Don Mills. It would really make even more sense to change Eglinton to regular subway (if this is possible) if "SmartTrack" happens. I get the perception that Tory is anti-LRT based on this SmartTrack proposal, even if he flip flops regarding Finch and Sheppard.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...arttrack_on_track_for_sevenyear_delivery.html

Tory claims that he can still build "SmartTrack" in the Richview Corridor on Eglinton, though a few short sections might have to be underground. I thought that a lot of land had been sold off to housing developers here, so this was impossible without a lot of tunneling.

It better be "a few short sections" and it better be dirt cheap. Anything more and we'll have a second Sheppard Subway boondoggle on our hands.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

There's a difference between not mentioning them, not promoting/defending them vs. actually cancelling them.

It's clearly not part of his message. If anybody brings it up at a debate, he will probably immediately deflect & start talking about "smart track" instead.

Tory clearly wants people to think he's anti SELRT & FWLRT. It's why he's been so hesitant to mention it.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

No he's not. I was open minded enough to consider him earlier, but he pissed me off very quickly on almost every issue.

- Smart track: The basic idea is good, but there are too many problems with his plan which I don't fell like rehashing again. The Liberals promised to do the same thing and more within 10 years.

- Relief line: This is the number one priority for the TTC and Metrolinx. Tory supported it, until he didn't.

- LRT: Until I hear an explicit endorsement of Finch and Sheppard LRT in either his policy papers, transit map, or from his own mouth (not his spokesperson), why should I trust that he won't try to delay them. Only now he appears to somewhat backtrack on this one, however this really shouldn't have been debated in the first place. Who is he to decide which funded transit projects are to be prioritized.

- Scarborough subway: While Tory still wants to debate LRTs, why is there is no debate on this subway extension, for which his Smart Track will have significant implications on the need for the subway in the first place.

- Buses: I was excited to hear about the TTC's proposed service improvements. Too bad Tory was the only candidate to slam the proposal because of the cost (which he also tries to exaggerate), and yet he has no problem spending billions on his Smart Track and suburban subways. His platform doesn't say much about buses at all, except adding a few more express routes.

- Transit funding: With Ford on his way out, now was supposed to be a good time to have a honest discussion about how to fund the transit we all want. Dozens of ideas were proposed by expert panels a few months ago, informed by best practices in other cities around the world. But Tory is having none of that. He wants to continue the big lie that transit can be funded by the private sector's deep pockets, without a dime from taxpayers. In his case, he picked Tax Increment Financing to do the magic, and of course it's complete bull.

- Eglinton Connects: Despite strong support from local residents and businesses, Tory is against it. "I have said all along that any proposal that will add to road congestion by reducing lanes of traffic is a non-starter in my books." It's sucks that some politicians are still pandering to the car in this day and age.

- Cycling: So far not a peep. Even when the media asks him if he supports the Richmond and Adelaide bike lanes, he rambles on and on without answering the freaking question. "My priority from day one as mayor is going to be to … keep traffic moving in this city, and I am in favour of making opportunities available for cyclists to get around the city too, because that will help, in its own way, to get traffic moving, too. But I want to look at the results of discussions that are going on today and other days and make sure that whatever we do, we are not putting additional obstructions in the way of people getting around in this city .............". In other words, he supports the interests of cyclists, as long as those interests are ones shared by motorists.

- Gardiner expressway: Like with everything else, "I will not support any solution that extends people’s commute times", so right off the bat he eliminates almost every alternative solution other than keeping the damn thing. Forget about what the traffic studies have actually said. Forget about the waterfront, transit, pedestrians and cyclists, the environment, and urban planning goals. It's all about the car.

What you have here is basically all my reasons for opposing Tory.

Quite frankly I'm disappointed that I ever supported this man. He's by far the most pandering candidate of this race. He'll say and do anything that he thinks will get him elected. I feel like he stands for nothing at this point. This isn't the same thoughtful & logical John Tory that was on Newstalk 1010.

 

[Rainforest]

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...arttrack_on_track_for_sevenyear_delivery.html

Tory claims that he can still build "SmartTrack" in the Richview Corridor on Eglinton, though a few short sections might have to be underground. I thought that a lot of land had been sold off to housing developers here, so this was impossible without a lot of tunneling.

If this happens (replacing the western portion of Eglinton LRT) this really makes the idea of making Eglinton LRT questionable. With the western portion replaced with GO, this means almost all of the LRT section is the Golden Mile big box stores east of Don Mills. It would really make even more sense to change Eglinton to regular subway (if this is possible) if "SmartTrack" happens. I get the perception that Tory is anti-LRT based on this SmartTrack proposal, even if he flip flops regarding Finch and Sheppard.

I am not sure how the reduction of total ridership on the Eglinton line (by replacing its western leg with SmartTrack) would justify converting the rest to a subway.

 

[Rainforest]

Overall, John Tory is the best of 3 candidates who has a shot of winning this elections.

Tory will support the already funded Scarborough Subway (unlike Chow), and will co-operate with Metrolinx on the already funded Finch and Sheppard LRT lines (unlike Ford).

I have serious doubts about Tory's SmartTrack proposal; it is great in principle, but may not be doable within the scope, cost, and timeframe he promised. However, since this idea appears to be very popular, it makes sense to study it quickly, and then either correct and adopt it, or drop it altogether and return to the Relief Line plan.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Overall, John Tory is the best of 3 candidates who has a shot of winning this elections.

Tory will support the already funded Scarborough Subway (unlike Chow), and will co-operate with Metrolinx on the already funded Finch and Sheppard LRT lines (unlike Ford).

I have serious doubts about Tory's SmartTrack proposal; it is great in principle, but may not be doable within the scope, cost, and timeframe he promised. However, since this idea appears to be very popular, it makes sense to study it quickly, and then either correct and adopt it, or drop it altogether and return to the Relief Line plan.

Chow is right on the subway and it will be proven so when it still isn't built circa 2025.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

No he's not. I was open minded enough to consider him earlier, but he pissed me off very quickly on almost every issue.

- Smart track: The basic idea is good, but there are too many problems with his plan which I don't fell like rehashing again. The Liberals promised to do the same thing and more within 10 years.

Fair. I like the Eglinton West part but I digress.

- Relief line: This is the number one priority for the TTC and Metrolinx. Tory supported it, until he didn't.

Fair.

- LRT: Until I hear an explicit endorsement of Finch and Sheppard LRT in either his policy papers, transit map, or from his own mouth (not his spokesperson), why should I trust that he won't try to delay them. Only now he appears to somewhat backtrack on this one, however this really shouldn't have been debated in the first place. Who is he to decide which funded transit projects are to be prioritized.

I agree with this 100 percent and I think he only came out today because of the spacing interview from way back. Ford went back on projects and look what happened, 4 years of delays. I think he won't build Finch and Sheppard in his first term between 2014 and 2018. I think by long term he means 2040 or never!

- Scarborough subway: While Tory still wants to debate LRTs, why is there is no debate on this subway extension, for which his Smart Track will have significant implications on the need for the subway in the first place.

Fair, this not not said enough but this subway is just another boondoggle. The ridership will tank after smart track is built.

- Buses: I was excited to hear about the TTC's proposed service improvements. Too bad Tory was the only candidate to slam the proposal because of the cost (which he also tries to exaggerate), and yet he has no problem spending billions on his Smart Track and suburban subways. His platform doesn't say much about buses at all, except adding a few more express routes.

He botched this, no question about it. He should have supported this anyway. If chow had not had that blow up he would have been hurt in the polls

- Transit funding: With Ford on his way out, now was supposed to be a good time to have a honest discussion about how to fund the transit we all want. Dozens of ideas were proposed by expert panels a few months ago, informed by best practices in other cities around the world. But Tory is having none of that. He wants to continue the big lie that transit can be funded by the private sector's deep pockets, without a dime from taxpayers. In his case, he picked Tax Increment Financing to do the magic, and of course it's complete bull.

Reminds me of this .

- Eglinton Connects: Despite strong support from local residents and businesses, Tory is against it. "I have said all along that any proposal that will add to road congestion by reducing lanes of traffic is a non-starter in my books." It's sucks that some politicians are still pandering to the car in this day and age.

The death of the little girl in leaside kind of hurt Eglinton Connects imo. The drivers will say it's because of the lack of space on Eglinton and connects and the LRT (at Don Mills.) It will take a big effort to get the suburbans(besides WislaHD) on board

- Cycling: So far not a peep. Even when the media asks him if he supports the Richmond and Adelaide bike lanes, he rambles on and on without answering the freaking question. "My priority from day one as mayor is going to be to … keep traffic moving in this city, and I am in favour of making opportunities available for cyclists to get around the city too, because that will help, in its own way, to get traffic moving, too. But I want to look at the results of discussions that are going on today and other days and make sure that whatever we do, we are not putting additional obstructions in the way of people getting around in this city .............". In other words, he supports the interests of cyclists, as long as those interests are ones shared by motorists.

He did go on the bike ride with the guy, but he has been too quiet. Remember, the car drivers still dominate this city despite gains, people in The Beach and Parkdale-High Park have cars. If Toronto wants to turn the corner the car drivers will need to learn to share.

- Gardiner expressway: Like with everything else, "I will not support any solution that extends people’s commute times", so right off the bat he eliminates almost every alternative solution other than keeping the damn thing. Forget about what the traffic studies have actually said. Forget about the waterfront, transit, pedestrians and cyclists, the environment, and urban planning goals. It's all about the car.

Well these people should be using the GO train firstly, rather then continue to have this ugly structure in city that's deteriorating.

I guess I didn't convince you and Tiger

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I guess I didn't convince you and Tiger

Sarcasm? Typo? I'm pretty sure we're in agreement with you