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1 Bloor East, DEAD AND BURIED (Bazis, -2s, Varacalli)

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Re: Toronto real estate prices

Incomes (particularly heavily burdened after-tax incomes) are significantly lower in Toronto than any of the plethora of really big cities (ie alpha cities) that Toronto is routinely compared to by the slick condo marketing media.
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I don't think this is accurate. The alpha cities are located in the US, UK, Japan, France, Germany, Hong Kong, Italy and Singapore. With the exception of alpha cities in the US, the purchasing power of Torontonians is at least the approximate equal of any of the others, and higher than most.

See Purchasing Power Parity
here.

Nor are we overtaxed compared to many of those nationalities.

I think it has more to do with the fact Canada and Canadians are perceived internationally to be bland, uninspiring, non-exotic and boring, although we live in a safe place and are uber nice.
 
Re: Toronto real estate prices

^^ Ummmm I would argue it has almost nothing to do with local economic conditions which are as generally prosperous here as anywhere (excluding the USA which is in a class of one).

I think it has mostly to do with an unsexy international image. This is changing, but glacially.
 
Re: Toronto real estate prices

the image will change only as fast as the city. when toronto will be world-class, it will have world-class stuff in it. we're obviously not quite there yet.
 
Re: Toronto real estate prices

Toronto is already "world class". Many cities fit the bill and Toronto is one of them.
 
Re: Toronto real estate prices

That famous GaWC list here
suggests we're a top 14 global city, which seems about right to me. We'll never crack the top 4, but it isn't inconceivable we could sneak into the second tier with Chicago and LA, etc.

This is very subjective stuff, but on that list of 14 I see about 4 cities that, to me, have a not-very-sexy image.

Toronto of course.
Los Angeles I wouldn't even call a real city.
Chicago is just a slightly larger version of Toronto.
Frankfurt doesn't have a sexy image for me (might not be fair, never been there)
Zurich is only semi-sexy to me.

The other cities are hot :)
 
Re: Toronto real estate prices

Toronto of course.
Los Angeles I wouldn't even call a real city.
Chicago is just a slightly larger version of Toronto.
Frankfurt doesn't have a sexy image for me (might not be fair, never been there)
Zurich is only semi-sexy to me.

The other cities are hot :)
Click to expand...

Los Angeles not a city? Have you spent any time there? Is it an absolutely MASSIVE metropolis second only to New York City in population. While it is spread across a very wide geographic area, it is light years ahead of Toronto by virtually every accepted measure of global significance. It actually has many similarities to Toronto in terms of its sprawl and there is a massive urban renewal occurring in key areas like downtown and Hollywood.

I live (& love) Toronto but it cannot compare to Los Angeles in 2007. Perhaps in 2027 the landscape will look somewhat different.

As far as the sexiness factor, that has nothing to do with prices. in NYC financial sector bonuses surpassed the GDP of Manitoba this year. I'm certain the same goes for London, UK and uber-dense cities like Hong Kong & Toyko.

When 8-figure bonuses start swashing around Bay Street you'll see a commensurate rise in condo prices. Until then the market is telling us that $350 p.s.f. is fair value for new builds and (with exceptions like Four Seasons & The Ritz) better to play by the rules than risk blowing your brains out on soft costs a la Trump 3.0, the latest in a long line of failure due to overestimating local demand & purchasing power.
 
Re: Toronto real estate prices

I think it has more to do with the fact Canada and Canadians are perceived internationally to be bland, uninspiring, non-exotic and boring, although we live in a safe place and are uber nice.
Click to expand...

That has NO effect on prices. Prices are set by local factors. Johnny Canuck works at BMO and wants to buy a new condo. He makes $250k/year and can afford x

WHEREAS

Joe Yankee works at JP Morgan and wants to buy a new condo. He makes $1m/year and can afford 4x.

Same goes for Austin Powers in UK, and their counterparts in other world cities. Demand is further augmented by the need for corporate residences and the desire by foreign buyers to have pied a tierres in places like New York and Paris. In my estimation there are not many people looking for a winter getaway apartment by the foot of Lake Ontario.
 
Re: Toronto real estate prices

There's a trend in the media (and here too) to continue to stereotype Toronto as a "polite" circa 50's, not quite "world class", wannabe metropolis... filled with polite, not so bright people.

The reality is... local government aside... the hated and maligned little town has indeed exploded as an international metropolis "inspite" of the elected and hired mini-minds who attempt to steer the ship.

There are many, many expansive and fertile business minds in this town who have contributed ("inspite") to this dynamic not so little engine of the country. It wasn't planned so much as it was the ignition of critical mass.

It's an accidental powerhouse. Or is it? We should all stop buying cereal hoping to find our "world class" temporary tattoo and start enjoying the ride.
 
Re: Toronto real estate prices

Toronto has so much positive momentum & progressive energy. I'd rather be in a smaller market on its way up then a stagnating larger market.

Notwithstanding, Toronto has a way to go before it gets recognized as a global powerhouse in most instances.
 
Re: Toronto real estate prices

^^ Ummmm I would argue it has almost nothing to do with local economic conditions which are as generally prosperous here as anywhere (excluding the USA which is in a class of one).
Click to expand...

Prosperous, but prices are still set by the local market and local economic conditions.
 
Re: Toronto real estate prices

Los Angeles not a city? Have you spent any time there?
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The reason many have issues with LA or Dallas is that while they are definitely cities, for the most part they do not have an urban feel. LA is very car dependant, is filled predominantly with wide streets, and compared with a city like Toronto has much less tall buildings and has density more evenly distributed leading to less nodes of dense urbanity, less dense avenues, but greater density on the average street. The lack of concentrated density along key transportation corridors and in dense nodes increases car dependance making the environment more hostile to the pedestrian.
 
Re: Toronto real estate prices

^ Strangely enough L.A. actually has a higher population density then Toronto. While it doesn't have as dense areas closer to downtown - the inner burbs are much denser thus the average density across the city is actually higher.
 
Wonderful, another "is Toronto world class?" debate! At least the amusing umademethisway fight was about Yonge & Bloor.
 
Re: Toronto real estate prices

Los Angeles not a city? Have you spent any time there? Is it an absolutely MASSIVE metropolis second only to New York City in population. While it is spread across a very wide geographic area, it is light years ahead of Toronto by virtually every accepted measure of global significance. It actually has many similarities to Toronto in terms of its sprawl and there is a massive urban renewal occurring in key areas like downtown and Hollywood.
Click to expand...

Ummm yes I've been there and what I said was it didn't seem like a real city to me. Despite your rant, it still doesn't. It lacks the urbanity of a more compact city. Basically what passes for downtown sucks. Sure it's huge ... duh ... but to claim it is 'light years ahead of Toronto by every accepted measure' is quite the stretch. It's a notch or two ahead and nobody said otherwise.

Strangely enough L.A. actually has a higher population density then Toronto. While it doesn't have as dense areas closer to downtown - the inner burbs are much denser thus the average density across the city is actually higher.
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That surprised me so I looked it up. Everything depends of course on where you draw boundaries. The original City of Toronto has a population of about 700,000 and an area of 97 km^2, for a density of about 7200 per km^2. What we now call Toronto (I might not be using the right terms here ... what was Metropolitan Toronto), has a population of about 2.7 million and an area of 630 km^2 for a density of about 4300 per km^2. The GTA has an population of about 6 million and an area of 7125 km^2 for a density of 842 per km^2.

According to Wikipedia, Los Angeles city (which would be approximately the equivalent of the 2.7 million Toronto) has a population of 4 million in 122 km^2 for a density of 3278 per km^2, which is less dense than Toronto's 4300, but not by much. The Metro LA region (similar maybe to the GTA) has 13 million living in 12560 km^2, for a density of 1035 per km^2, which by gum IS denser than the GTA.
 
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