Dundas St Rapid Transit (Metrolinx, Mississauga, Halton Region, CoT)

[drum118]

Nov 10
Used the Dundas and Hurontario intersection at 9:30 today while returning the rental car and both westbound lanes were backup over a block with no construction taking place. There were cars in the turning lanes as well. If this was a single lane as plan, traffic would be backup the the traffic light to the east. Would say off hand that peak traffic would be backup to CP overpass and about 20 minute travel time.

 

[sixrings]

Nov 10
Used the Dundas and Hurontario intersection at 9:30 today while returning the rental car and both westbound lanes were backup over a block with no construction taking place. There were cars in the turning lanes as well. If this was a single lane as plan, traffic would be backup the the traffic light to the east. Would say off hand that peak traffic would be backup to CP overpass and about 20 minute travel time.

I’ve been backed up to that dominoes pizza plaza or after the kfc plaza multiple times. I prefer never to go through that intersection as it currently is. This will not make any friends between the car drivers and the transit users. It’s crazy.

 

[Wm Perkins Bull]

If they can rezone surplus and sell at a profit then there is a strong argument the original owner was not made whole for the value of their land during the expropriation process.

I'm not aware of a lawsuit after the fact as expropriated land is typically minimized, but there are certainly some pre-expropriation rezoning applications to ensure maximum value is considered (see Toronto's railway park).

Anyway, at most you can do this once. Every aggressive expropriation proposal after that a lawyer will draft a collective land-assembly agreement and toss in a basic rezoning application for every single expropriation in exchange for a %age of the increased value.

Incorrect, the reason this is a viable for the City to do is that the rezoned use is only possible as a result of having acquired the land. The landowner is compensated for the highest and best use at the time, which does not currently include high density housing, due to deficient transportation. After the City expropriates it, there is now sufficient transportation capacity to support high density housing, and as such, the City can rezone it, and sell it for more than they bought it for. The City by expropriating and using a portion of the land has created value that was only achievable through the acquisition of the land.

Imagine a house that sits right against a two lane rural road without municipal water or sewer. The City wants to widen the road to 6 lanes, and add municipal water and sewer, to do this, they must expropriate the house in the right of way. After they have finished widening the road, they rezone the remnant of the parcel the house used to sit on for 12 storey housing. Should the City have had to pay the owner of the rural lot, without water and sewer, for the value of land for a 12 storey apartment building?

 

[sixrings]

Incorrect, the reason this is a viable for the City to do is that the rezoned use is only possible as a result of having acquired the land. The landowner is compensated for the highest and best use at the time, which does not currently include high density housing, due to deficient transportation. After the City expropriates it, there is now sufficient transportation capacity to support high density housing, and as such, the City can rezone it, and sell it for more than they bought it for. The City by expropriating and using a portion of the land has created value that was only achievable through the acquisition of the land.

Imagine a house that sits right against a two lane rural road without municipal water or sewer. The City wants to widen the road to 6 lanes, and add municipal water and sewer, to do this, they must expropriate the house in the right of way. After they have finished widening the road, they rezone the remnant of the parcel the house used to sit on for 12 storey housing. Should the City have had to pay the owner of the rural lot, without water and sewer, for the value of land for a 12 storey apartment building?

Yes they should because that was the more intention all along. They had knowledge and the power to make the land more valuable immediately after acquiring it.

 

[jys]

Is there a real need for 4 GP lanes through this area? Turning traffic will go around it, and Queensway would be the fastest route for thru-traffic in any case (2 lanes or 4).

 

[sixrings]

Is there a real need for 4 GP lanes through this area? Turning traffic will go around it, and Queensway would be the fastest route for thru-traffic in any case (2 lanes or 4).

Let’s pretend you are travelling from mavis and dundas to dixie and dundas. You are not going to go up to burnamthorpe or south to queensway so that you can have faster thru-traffic because of one intersection.

On Saturday afternoon I was backed upped going west bound at the new condo development past the bridge.

The real question is if they continue with this poor decision will there be anyway to correct it once it’s done. Or is it now or never to build correct.

 

[drum118]

The city is proposing a ring road around the intersection that will force unwell traffic onto local streets and plain stupid.

• A note to file to the TPAP is required in order for the proposed work to proceed.
• Staff are seeking endorsement of the interim design and the authority to file a TPAP note to file. The TPAP note to file memo will enable the interim design to be implemented as part ofthe Dundas BRT Mississauga East Project.
• After the TPAP note to file process is completed, staff and the technical advisor will work together to finalize the Reference Concept Design (RCD) and Project Specific Output Specification (PSOS).
• The RCD and PSOS will be incorporated into the RFP package of the Dundas BRT. Mississauga East Project, which is anticipated to be issued in Q1 2024.

 

[Lake Ontario]

Slides for the Toronto portion of the Dundas BRT have been uploaded: https://assets.metrolinx.com/raw/upload/Images/Metrolinx/Toronto_Open_house_Virtual_open_house.pptx

3 stops are proposed in Toronto at: The East Mall, Shornecliffe Rd/Shaver Ave S, Kipling Terminal

3 Alternatives were considered with Alternative 2 being the preferred alternative:
Alternative 1 - Full median BRT with pinched boulevards
Alternative 2 - Full median BRT with standard boulevards
Alternative 3 - Curbside Reserved Bus Lanes (RBL) with standard boulevards.

Stop Design:

Project Timeline:

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A map of the Mississauga West portion has also been uploaded: https://assets.metrolinx.com/image/..._BRT_2024-03-27-PIC4-Map_Mississauga-West.jpg

Stops missing from the 2017 Dundas Connects Master Plan include Ridgeway Dr/Winston Park Dr, The Credit Woodlands, Wolfedale Rd, and Clayhill Rd. Ninth Line has been added.

 

[sixrings]

I just look at the map and wonder why we couldn’t extend the subway one stop to Dixie and a second to cooksville and call it a day.

 

[reinventingthewheel]

I just look at the map and wonder why we couldn’t extend the subway one stop to Dixie and a second to cooksville and call it a day.

Well for one, Dixie is 5km away which is unreasonable spacing for a subway. You’re also serving zero people or jobs in most of that stretch. The appropriate mode has been selected for capacity and stop spacing.

What you want is better Milton line service, and I can wholly empathize with your disappointment in its current state.

 

[sixrings]

Well for one, Dixie is 5km away which is unreasonable spacing for a subway. You’re also serving zero people or jobs in most of that stretch. The appropriate mode has been selected for capacity and stop spacing.

What you want is better Milton line service, and I can wholly empathize with your disappointment in its current state.

St Claire west to Eglinton west is about 4km. So it’s not that huge a jump.

Why is it ok to take a long BRT to a subway versus just riding a longer subway train to begin with?

There isn’t much around the black creek station, 407 station or VMC station. They were all built on potential.

Actually for me work wise an extended subway helps me more since I don’t work right downtown Toronto.

 

[Sagaris88]

St Claire west to Eglinton west is about 4km. So it’s not that huge a jump.

St Clair West to Eglinton West is around 2.5km not 4km.

 

[nfitz]

St Claire west to Eglinton west is about 4km. So it’s not that huge a jump.

You aren't going to skip Sherway Gardens though. The 2002 RTES study had 2 stations between Kipling and Dixie.

But that's not really your point. I'm think Hazel should have pushed the Line 2 extension to MCC, rather than the Mississauga Transitbust.

 

[reinventingthewheel]

St Claire west to Eglinton west is about 4km. So it’s not that huge a jump.

That’s simply not true. Those two roads run 2km apart, station to station is no more than 2.2km.

Why is it ok to take a long BRT to a subway versus just riding a longer subway train to begin with?

Because there is no goal of putting everyone from south east Mississauga on the subway, there are many potential and existing trip generators between.

Furthermore, this is the first progression of higher order transit. A successful median BRT can be more easily repurposed as an at grade LRT or even elevated metro.

There isn’t much around the black creek station, 407 station or VMC station. They were all built on potential.

Yes, those are instances where we jumped directly from local+regional buses to full scale metro and, frankly, wasted a lot of money in the process. I don’t see why you brought this up, you make it sound as if you’d like to repeat that.

Actually for me work wise an extended subway helps me more since I don’t work right downtown Toronto.

And for all the individuals not going all the way downtown they are building an alternative. There just aren’t enough of you to justify a subway extension.

 

[Bojaxs]

Why is it ok to take a long BRT to a subway versus just riding a longer subway train to begin with?

Why not just take the GO train if that's how you feel? Why stretch our subways so far when we already have a commuter/regional rail system that already provides a similar service?