Jonny5
Senior Member
LOL. "Dozens of trains!" but we need authentic data.
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GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)
- Thread starter drum118
- Start date
LOL. "Dozens of trains!" but we need authentic data.
robmausser
Senior Member
Many boomers who bought houses near train tracks were told by Realtors in the 70's etc that "Trains are dead, cars are replacing trains, the future is in flying cars etc". They were sold a lie in order to appease them in buying essentially what should have been devalued property.
Imagine their shock and amazement that train service is experiencing a renaissance, and the train tracks they were told would be torn out and replaced with a nice walking trail is getting expanded service.
But their anger is misplaced.
crs1026
Superstar
I ride the midday Mount Joy trains fairly often and generally find them well used.... certainly beyond a busload or two of business.
The limiting factor is that the parking lots are full by 08:00, which really disincents midday travellers. When service goes to half hourly, the convenience of the schedule will improve but there still won't be any way to get to the station.
It's time ML (and us) recognized that conventional 45-foot municipal transit buses running on main arteries may be good for many, but they are a lousy way to do the first/last mile connection to a RER system. It's time for a more innovative approach, likely something with electric mini buses, online apps to hail the ride, and flexible routes that get people all the way into subdivisions. I wonder how long it will be before these vehicles can be automated.
- Paul
The limiting factor is that the parking lots are full by 08:00, which really disincents midday travellers. When service goes to half hourly, the convenience of the schedule will improve but there still won't be any way to get to the station.
It's time ML (and us) recognized that conventional 45-foot municipal transit buses running on main arteries may be good for many, but they are a lousy way to do the first/last mile connection to a RER system. It's time for a more innovative approach, likely something with electric mini buses, online apps to hail the ride, and flexible routes that get people all the way into subdivisions. I wonder how long it will be before these vehicles can be automated.
- Paul
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canarob
Senior Member
Well, Metrolinx shows continual ridership growth on the Stouffville Line, so this guy can move away from the tracks if he wants. I hope weekend service wakes him up from his naps.
Neutrino
Senior Member
Laugh at the guy, but he's bang on about the lack of last mile connections. If Mlinx doesn't address that, RER will be a big flop and midday trains will remain empty. Seeing empty trains will piss off people and they'll sour on transit expansion. Transit fans write off such concerns at their peril.
Northern Light
Superstar
I certainly concur that there needs to be better transit/transportation servicing suburban GO stations.
But I'm not sure why the onus is on Metrolinx.
York Region Transit is the local provider, on that line, and I would argue the onus is on them.
I've never heard someone suggest that the problem w/Danforth GO or Long Branch is that there isn't enough 'last mile'. That, of course, is because the TTC provides that.
Brampton has clearly established what happens when you vastly improve route structure and frequency/span of service. Ridership growth, and lots of it.
If YRT got proper funding support (which it has to ask for first), it could meet a great deal of the demand (not all of it) with conventional transit.
Take basic service on the major routes nearest each station and make sure you have 15M or better service in place, all-day, and that the local bus stops are either integrated to GO or at least convenient to access (walkway w/snowmelt and canopy/lighting), controlled street crossing, shelter w/heating w/next trip time display.
I would have no objection to suggesting Metrolinx communicate, clearly, in writing to York Region that service increases from GO are dependent on a matching investment in YRT.
Metrolinx was pretty much that demanding in Niagara and the result is regional transit (where there was none) and substantial (overdue) improvements in local service.
But they aren't the provider of said service.
robmausser
Senior Member
Last mile needs to not just be there physically, but also reasonable.
When the TTC last mile was 50% off when you took GO it was worth it. To pay full fare ontop of the already relatively pricey GO trip, many people will just stick on a longer bus ride and avoid the train etc.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
The suburban local services have long had GO integrated fare structures where the local fare costs only $0.75 or so.
robmausser
Senior Member
yes but that is only half of the last mile equation. There are two last miles, at your arrival and destination.
What good is a co-fare in suburbia when you dont get one downtown? Most people need to then take the TTC from Union.
The disincentive will cause someone to just take a Markham bus to a TTC bus and avoid the midday GO trains altogether.
crs1026
Superstar
^I agree that ML need not be the local service provider, but I don't agree that it therefore falls on YRT.
The premise when ML was created was that it would somehow rise above parochial issues and silo-bust the bureaucratic and parochial political mindset of individual transit properties. This hasn't happened, and if anything ML's own poor track record continues to leave the municipal operators determined not to play nice. It's time to tear up that whole idea - doing it the same way and expecting a different result is craziness.
What first-mile/last-mile needs is a completely new system. Sure, the municipal transit grids can carry some connecting passengers with GO, but some other system and method is needed in parallel. Think of it as Uber-sharing and not as more bus routes.
I would like to see this put out to an RFP procurement. If the whole GO operation can go to P3, surely this can. One would likely see a lot more innovative proposals come forward this way, proposals that sidestep the existing infrastructure (politicians, management and unions) and their engrained modus operandi and mindsets altogether. Certainly, the municipalities could bid on these if they chose, but without any monopoly guarantee.
I don't see fare integration as a problem. Personally I would be content to tap my phone on the last-mile provider even if I tapped my Presto Card for the rest of the ride. Just price the service accordingly.
- Paul
The premise when ML was created was that it would somehow rise above parochial issues and silo-bust the bureaucratic and parochial political mindset of individual transit properties. This hasn't happened, and if anything ML's own poor track record continues to leave the municipal operators determined not to play nice. It's time to tear up that whole idea - doing it the same way and expecting a different result is craziness.
What first-mile/last-mile needs is a completely new system. Sure, the municipal transit grids can carry some connecting passengers with GO, but some other system and method is needed in parallel. Think of it as Uber-sharing and not as more bus routes.
I would like to see this put out to an RFP procurement. If the whole GO operation can go to P3, surely this can. One would likely see a lot more innovative proposals come forward this way, proposals that sidestep the existing infrastructure (politicians, management and unions) and their engrained modus operandi and mindsets altogether. Certainly, the municipalities could bid on these if they chose, but without any monopoly guarantee.
I don't see fare integration as a problem. Personally I would be content to tap my phone on the last-mile provider even if I tapped my Presto Card for the rest of the ride. Just price the service accordingly.
- Paul
Streety McCarface
Senior Member
People have to remember that as RER is rolled out, trains will get a lot smaller. Having 50-100 people on a 3 car emu is quite reasonable in retrospect during off-peak hours.
lenaitch
Senior Member
Reminds me of when I took the Stouffville train back in the day and a guy who backed onto the track would come out to his deck everyday to give the train the finger. I think it was near the 16th Ave. crossing.
hw621
Senior Member
That poor guy was just laughed at and forgotten as this. I feel his pain though, having to be awakened by the train horn every hour till mid night...
lenaitch
Senior Member
^ Then don't buy a house that backs on a rail line. Possibly, as an earlier post said, the developer told them that it was an lightly used freight line that will probably end up being torn up. I suppose the taxpayers could agree to whatever costs and liabilities required by TC to approve a no-horn exemption, but then, oh, the rumbling.
Krypto98
Active Member
The midday Kitchener line trains were mostly empty the first 2 years. Now the 9:00, 10:00, 11:00 and 12:00 have a good amount of people on it. In fact I think they need to increase the 9:00 from 6 to 10 coaches. It's been standing room only for a while now after malton. The remaining trains are usually 1/2 to 3/4 full. The new evening trains are usually empty going towards union but riding the new 7:53 train about 30 people got off at each station (after Etobicoke north) to mount pleasant.