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MoveOntario 2020

Transit for the Region

I have noticed a lot of discussion about a lack of downtown Toronto focus. While this appears to be true, it is important to note that travel patterns have changed significantly over the last 15 years. Transportation Toronto Surveys (TTS) in the 1990’s started to indicate a high proportion of trips being made in and between suburbs. Therefore, neglecting to accept this trend would result in much more negative consequences. We must acknowledge that the greatest increase in congestion will occur outside of the city in places like York Region. Therefore, the suburbs need rapid transit, more importantly a transit network that offers maximum utility for those attempting to travel between suburbs in the GTA. There is currently no viable alternative for these people.

We need a transit system that can truly offer regional travel options both into and out of Toronto. Increasing the capacity of GO lines (Bus and Rail) and creating new lines that travel between suburbs will make public transit an attractive alternative.
 
I guess you haven't tried using the King or Queen streetcars recently.

And this doesn't factor in all the new development coming inside downtown and from both west (Liberty Village, Molson lands, City Place etc) and from the east (West Donlands, East Bayfront, portlands etc). More people being dumped on the Yonge and Bloor/Danforth subways and at Union Station will mean absolute gridlock downtown within a decade at most IMO. Something will need to be done down here.
 
Aren't the West Don Lands and East Bayfrong going to get their own streetcar lines?

I am not disputing the need. Demand for higher order rapid transit in downtown is here right now. But with limited funds and an increase in congestion in suburbs that have an almost non-existent transit system, I would start to invest on initial rapid transit infrastructure there first. A time will come when the Queen and King lines will be converted to subways or underground LRT's. However, in my opinion, that time is not now. I can pose a similar question to you, have you been on the SRT lately? Demand is dispersed throughout the city and with inadequate resources to service transit demand some places will undoubtedly have to wait.
 
I'd like to see a comlpleted Sheppard Line, Eglinton Line and Downtown Relief Line before 2 lines to the northern suburbs.
 
I can pose a similar question to you, have you been on the SRT lately? Demand is dispersed throughout the city and with inadequate resources to service transit demand some places will undoubtedly have to wait.
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True but trains to Uxbridge, North Pickering, and Stouffville but nothing for downtown seems ridiculous to me.
 
AnarchoSocialist said:
Cacruden: Most of the points you made are being addressed.
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Exactly. The entire system can't be revamped in one step, but significant groundwork is being laid with this plan. Service should be greatly improved at every station on every line (including the new lines/line extensions) but it's a little early to post something like updated train schedules, which seems to be what Cacruden's looking for to prove that service will be better.

Mooreton said:
I can pose a similar question to you, have you been on the SRT lately?
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Yes, and we may have just lost our opportunity to get a free Danforth line extension that would have replaced the decrepit thing...hell, it seems MoveOntario would have paid for a subway extension to the Zoo! What a shining moment in Toronto's history.

A great number of the people filling transit vehicles in the suburbs end up downtown...some of the people crowding the RT are the same ones crowding the YUS loop or King streetcar. Fixing problems at one end of a trip only fixes half the problems.
 
Just a clarification on the status of Blue 22. While Blue 22 is no longer the only solution being offered for the Pearson-Union rail link, it is not exactly dead. The Blue 22 option is still being considered as part of the Georgetown EA along with a number of other possible service options for a Pearson-Union rail link. And while it is very unlikely it would be chosen in its originally proposed form, a private company operating the link, perhaps in cooperation with GO, is a valid option at this point.

Depending on the scope of the project the estimate for completion is 2010 or 2011.
 
Ed's definitely absolutely right. We do have our priorities way off. Unfortunately, these are all the priorities set by the individual municipalities. There's no question that if the City of Toronto had included a DRL subway in its plans, it would have been funded. Same goes for a Scarborough subway. Unfortunately, our councillors seem to believe that LRT is the only good transit solution.
 
A time will come when the Queen and King lines will be converted to subways or underground LRT's. However, in my opinion, that time is not now.
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You're right. That time was 40 years ago.
 
This may depend slightly on exact alignments and station locations, but I think we could support both a Queen line and a DRL. Of course, this is Toronto, and unless both are visibly at crush load capacity, they will be scorned as failures.
 
I envison a Queen line as being shallow cut-and-cover, completely POP with no collection areas, with separate stairs and elevators on either side of the street right to the platform and frequent stations. Built cheap, mostly a local service as it would not be built to serve the passengers coming in from the suburbs (which would be served by the DRL).
 
Yes, it would have to be shallow to really serve local traffic well...if you have to trudge down 80 steps, wait for the train, travel, then trudge back up 80 steps, people are just going to walk on the surface or cab it or whatever. That's one big advantage of surface transit - it's much better for the very shortest of trips. Well, it would be on Queen if the streetcar ran more than once every 30 minutes.
 
I heard that the public service was totally taken by surprise on this announcement. Apparently public infrastructure, municipal affairs, and transportation knew nothing about this plan. Nice huh?

What do the Liberals expect the public service urban planners to do now? Implement something that was totally election motivated? Throw out everything they had been working on?

They can't just start building these things after the election... there are huge environmental studies needed first.

My intense dislike for politicians grows even larger.
 
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