MoveOntario 2020

[ShonTron]

If Barrie wasn't so hell-bent on building over its ROW, then it would be a piece of cake to bring service at least as far as Orillia Station. (The station there still stands and is in decent condition - it is still the bus terminal for Ontario Northland buses).

At this point, I am resigned to seeing that restored rail service to Orillia is but a pipe dream. The best we can ask for is actually not that bad a solution - extend the Barrie GO Train to downtown, and offer off peak and express service with a smaller train set meant for short-distance intercity rail, like some of the DMU equipment in Europe. Barrie-Toronto should really be a minimum of 3 trains a day in addition to the GO commuter round trips (making limited stops at say Maple, Newmarket and Bradford), or 4 trips a day on weekends, with trains meeting buses to Orillia, Midland, Collingwood/Wasaga for all departures.

I like the idea of train-meets for regional/intercity trips. Lindsay via Pontypool is another great example. Simcoe/Waterford should have a bus to the VIA station in Brantford, Goderich/Clinton/Seaforth/Mitchell from Stratford, St.Thomas from London (where the London Transit and Greyhound buses are nearby), and even Peterborough to Cobourg VIA.

 

[Transportfan]

VIVA purple (west of Yonge) makes that silly diversion north on Bathurst, then east on Highway 7 to Yonge. Makes sense today, but with a subway station at Yonge and Centre, VIVA purple could be split in half, with west of Yonge and Brampton buses feeding Yonge and Centre, and east of Yonge buses serving Yonge and 7.

I wonder how connections between the 2 east/west Highway 7 buses would work if someone has to take the subway and to pay a double fare to do it? Have the 1 Hwy. 7 East bus serve Centre station as well?

That aside, Centre is a good location for a station just for the bus connections. It doesn't make sense for a bus to turn either direction on Yonge for any distance if half the ppl. want to go in the opposite direction. There is a good spot for a terminal there, the gas station on the SW corner.

 

[EnviroTO]

At this point, I am resigned to seeing that restored rail service to Orillia is but a pipe dream.

A station could be built at Rama Rd on the line that used to enter Orillia from the east coming up from an intersection with the Richmond Hill line (Bala?) at Brechin.

 

[Panzerfaust]

I wonder how connections between the 2 east/west Highway 7 buses would work if someone has to take the subway and to pay a double fare to do it? Have the 1 Hwy. 7 East bus serve Centre station as well?

Hopefully by the time the subway extension is built, there will be a smart card system in place. If a tap-in-tap-out type system were implemented, then a connection like this is entirely feasible. Get on the western Hwy. 7 bus running to Centre. Free transfer to the subway. If you take it north to Hwy. 7 and transfer, there is no extra fare, but if you take it south to Toronto, you are charged upon tapping out. This is, of course, assuming that there is no fare integration at this time. If there is fare integration, things would be even simpler.

edit: Now that I think about it, this tap in tap out system might cause problems with YRT to Subway to TTC surface route connections. Eh, it can get fleshed out.

 

[urbanfan89]

^ Transfer City, Transfer City, Transfer City.

 

[RedRocket191]

edit: Now that I think about it, this tap in tap out system might cause problems with YRT to Subway to TTC surface route connections. Eh, it can get fleshed out.

Assuming we keep the fare zone border at the 416/905 divide, this is what I propose:

You tap-in when you board a new vehicle outside of a fare-paid zone. Exactly the same setup as today. 905 buses would have to never enter a fare paid zone in this case. You have 2 hours of free transfers within the fare zone.

People using the subway to travel within York Region (York University included) can tap-out in order to get a refund. People using the subway traveling between York University and Highway 407 Transitway station should tap-out in order to get a refund.

GO Passengers must tap-in and tap-out or they will have to pay a penalty fare. (Tap-in assumes you're going from terminus to terminus. Tap-out refunds the difference).

The Presto Card will know where you last used it, and will deduct the next fare based on where you came from.

This is just something to think about...

 

[urbanfan89]

I'm still standing by my plan of a choice of tickets for unlimited travel for 30/60/90/120 minutes.

There will be absolutely no premium express services (other than various downtown expresses), since I don't believe in two-tiered transit systems.

If there are any disruptions or delays that cost people their trips, then the operator should give a free ticket. In Spain, the high speed rail network is so reliable that they refund the full ticket if the train is more than 5 minutes late. With the GO Train system, trains get cancelled because the driver has as stomach ache!

 

[RedRocket191]

^ Transfer City, Transfer City, Transfer City.

How is that any different than someone taking the Lawrence bus to Lawrence Stn, going north to York Mills and then getting on the 95?

I'm still standing by my plan of a choice of tickets for unlimited travel for 30/60/90/120 minutes.

There will be absolutely no premium express services (other than various downtown expresses), since I don't believe in two-tiered transit systems.

If there are any disruptions or delays that cost people their trips, then the operator should give a free ticket. In Spain, the high speed rail network is so reliable that they refund the full ticket if the train is more than 5 minutes late. With the GO Train system, trains get cancelled because the driver has as stomach ache!

I do believe in time-based fares as an alternative to distance based fares for local transit, but I worry about offering too many choices. The Transport for London fare schedule for the Underground alone is at least 16 pages - that's wrong. Still, there is the problem with service delays. What if there's a 12 car pileup on the highway in front of your bus? What if there is a jumper? There's no way the agency could be held responsible for those cases, so should they have to give out free passes?

If we are going to offer free passes, then know that those free passes come out of all our pockets.

 

[urbanfan89]

How is that any different than someone taking the Lawrence bus to Lawrence Stn, going north to York Mills and then getting on the 95?

There's no way to give this passenger a direct route since there are very few suburban bus routes that do not stick on concession routes, and the exceptions exist because of high traffic demand (e.g. the Sheppard Rocket).

Forcing someone to take Viva to Centre, take the subway to Richmond Hill and take another bus east is the equivalent of forcing someone to take the 85 from Don Mills and then transfer at McCowan to get to STC. It's an unnecessary transfer and hence the Sheppard Rocket exists. The same could apply with Viva where the only additional costs involve an extra 1 km on Bathurst. Perhaps a new Viva route will be created, which starts at Centre and goes west.

I do believe in time-based fares as an alternative to distance based fares for local transit, but I worry about offering too many choices. The Transport for London fare schedule for the Underground alone is at least 16 pages - that's wrong.

We just need four choices for those paying cash fares: 30 minutes, 60 minutes, 90 minutes, 120 minutes. Of course, you could buy day passes, Metropasses, and tickets in bulk at 7/11 or anywhere else.

Still, there is the problem with service delays. What if there's a 12 car pileup on the highway in front of your bus? What if there is a jumper? There's no way the agency could be held responsible for those cases, so should they have to give out free passes?

Sometimes the agency will experience delays beyond its control, but it still has to serve customers. If Air Canada delays flights due to bad weather, the airline still has to care for passengers. If the bus is in a pileup, it could minimize delays by getting another bus to pick the passengers up on the other side of the highway (presumably police will cooperate) and take a detour. In such a case the operator could extend the expiry time of passengers with single tickets by 30 minutes.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

I think it's pretty obvious that any Hwy 7 or Viva route would be continuous and the two halves would meet at Langstaff...at least, that's the only thing that makes sense if Viva Purple is upgraded to full BRT or LRT. Otherwise, you have transfer city.

 

[DENTROBATE54]

How is that any different than someone taking the Lawrence bus to Lawrence Stn, going north to York Mills and then getting on the 95?

The brain trust has yet to figure out that every commute in the world involves transfering from one vehicle to the next as every destination cannot possibly, realistically be reached by one single route. The sooner we get over this "no subways=victimhood mentality", the faster the entire GTA will benefit from mass transit of the BRT/LRT/premetro variety.

I do believe in time-based fares as an alternative to distance based fares for local transit, but I worry about offering too many choices. The Transport for London fare schedule for the Underground alone is at least 16 pages - that's wrong. Still, there is the problem with service delays. What if there's a 12 car pileup on the highway in front of your bus? What if there is a jumper? There's no way the agency could be held responsible for those cases, so should they have to give out free passes? If we are going to offer free passes, then know that those free passes come out of all our pockets.

The hypocrisy of the sTTingy C never ceases to amaze, enforcing militant levels of fare demands for sub-par service. Boy am I glad I live in the 905 now where a trip from Winston Churchill to Cornell just costs $2.75.

I think it's pretty obvious that any Hwy 7 or Viva route would be continuous and the two halves would meet at Langstaff...at least, that's the only thing that makes sense if Viva Purple is upgraded to full BRT or LRT. Otherwise, you have transfer city.

Not LRT just yet, but yeah a continuous VIVA right across (Hwy 50-Cornell) is the better-than-subway option Vaughan-Markham deserves.