YRT/Viva Construction Thread (Rapidways, Terminals)

[Transportfan]

I wonder why the 1 Highway 7 isn't named Highway 7 East. It would be more obvious that it services just east of Yonge.

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

I wonder why the 1 Highway 7 isn't named Highway 7 East. It would be more obvious that it services just east of Yonge.

I think it is a historical artifact going back to when each municipality ran their own transit systems, Vaughan, Markham, etc all had their own transit systems and operated somewhat independently. Now the individual systems all fall under the heading of YRT, and there are more interconnections between them.

 

[Transportfan]

Now the individual systems all fall under the heading of YRT, and there are more interconnections between them.

Which is why it should be called Highway 7 East now.

 

[wilson_wu]

Which is why it should be called Highway 7 East now.

It's already been done before.
98 and 99 used to be called Yonge North and Yonge South. Same went for Bayview South and Bayview North.

Apparently it was too confusing as customers took it to mean going Southbound/Northbound etc.

All routes were simplified and NSEW were removed.

 

[Leo_Chan]

It's already been done before.
98 and 99 used to be called Yonge North and Yonge South. Same went for Bayview South and Bayview North.

Apparently it was too confusing as customers took it to mean going Southbound/Northbound etc.

All routes were simplified and NSEW were removed.

It's reasonable for people to be be confused with North and South because there's not official boundaries for north and south York Region, Bernard Terminal? What's that?

I would make sense to unify the east-west routes or divide them into East and West since everyone (or at least most people) identify Yonge as the EW division.

Removing of all the old Richmond Hill Transit, Markham Transit, Vaughan Transit, etc. remnant routes would cause some pain in the short term, but is well work it to unify all the routes in York Region.

I wouldn't mind if Viva Blue, Purple, Orange (maybe Green, Silver, Yellow) were used as the "major" routes where all the "local" YRT routes funnelled into, similar to TTC Subways and LRT.

I'm not saying all routes should terminate at the Viva Stations, but should have a stop at/near their respective street stations and terminate at the Terminals (RHC, Finch, VMC, Cornel, Bernard, Newmarket, etc.).

Reorganization is key to efficiency and simplicity.

 

[amnesiajune]

I wouldn't mind if Viva Blue, Purple, Orange (maybe Green, Silver, Yellow) were used as the "major" routes where all the "local" YRT routes funnelled into, similar to TTC Subways and LRT.

The problem is that they're not much faster than the "local" YRT routes. In some cases, the local routes are actually faster since they don't take detours, like Viva does to York University and Enterprise.

 

[Leo_Chan]

The problem is that they're not much faster than the "local" YRT routes. In some cases, the local routes are actually faster since they don't take detours, like Viva does to York University and Enterprise.

Well, Viva Purple will no longer go to York U as West of RHC will be replaced with Viva Orange and will go through Bathurst and Centre toward VMC and Hwy 427 on Highway 7 (no longer going to York U, you must take TYSSE or another route) and there will be a branch of Viva Purple that stays on Hwy 7 after Warden (1/2 of buses).

Either way, Viva routes "should" be faster than local routes as they are "rapid transit".

 

[strookie]

From link:
beginning Sunday, YRT Route 77 and Viva Purple to service vivastations in rapidway

Today I watched from a parking lot at the corner of Keele and Highway 7, to see how VIVA Purple was handling the turns. Not well.

There was at least one articulated bus with its sign stating "YRT Training Bus" running the route both ways. That made for what seemed a very busy Purple route. Perhaps intentionally, at one point an eastbound bus turned from the northbound right turn lane into the public eastbound lanes. If it was in service, then a few people missed their bus! For the rest of the eastbound buses that I spotted, as they approached the intersection, they travelled on the hash-marked area between the right turn lane and the northbound through lanes. They didn't enter the intersection until the traffic light permitted northbound through traffic. Still, they had a very difficult time negotiating the right turn onto the protected ROW because the concrete delta was never designed to permit right turns like that. At one point, I spotted a westbound 77 bus, in the protected ROW, waiting 30 or 40 feet from the stop line to allow an eastbound Purple to complete its right turn.

Westbound Purple faired little better. Their transit priority traffic lights permitted a left turn about five seconds before the rest of the westbound traffic got their green arrow. But the Purples turning left had to end up in the right-most southbound lane ASAP in order to reach the bus stop safely. That proved a hair-raising move because at the same time there would be a long line of eastbound cars trying to negotiate a right turn to go south and they would be cut off by the bus! Lots of honking horns. Guaranteed to be a high frequency accident zone unless the city installs a no right turn on red regulation sign.

 

[Leo_Chan]

Today I watched from a parking lot at the corner of Keele and Highway 7, to see how VIVA Purple was handling the turns. Not well.

There was at least one articulated bus with its sign stating "YRT Training Bus" running the route both ways. That made for what seemed a very busy Purple route. Perhaps intentionally, at one point an eastbound bus turned from the northbound right turn lane into the public eastbound lanes. If it was in service, then a few people missed their bus! For the rest of the eastbound buses that I spotted, as they approached the intersection, they travelled on the hash-marked area between the right turn lane and the northbound through lanes. They didn't enter the intersection until the traffic light permitted northbound through traffic. Still, they had a very difficult time negotiating the right turn onto the protected ROW because the concrete delta was never designed to permit right turns like that. At one point, I spotted a westbound 77 bus, in the protected ROW, waiting 30 or 40 feet from the stop line to allow an eastbound Purple to complete its right turn.

Westbound Purple faired little better. Their transit priority traffic lights permitted a left turn about five seconds before the rest of the westbound traffic got their green arrow. But the Purples turning left had to end up in the right-most southbound lane ASAP in order to reach the bus stop safely. That proved a hair-raising move because at the same time there would be a long line of eastbound cars trying to negotiate a right turn to go south and they would be cut off by the bus! Lots of honking horns. Guaranteed to be a high frequency accident zone unless the city installs a no right turn on red regulation sign.

Are the Viva Purple North/Eastbound busses suppose to use the rightmost through lane to turn onto the ROW? It shows that on the newsletter.

 

[strookie]

Are the Viva Purple North/Eastbound busses suppose to use the rightmost through lane to turn onto the ROW? It shows that on the newsletter.

I'll be able to check this in the next couple of days. The newsletter is not detailed enough. It does not show all 5 northbound lanes. In order from left to right, they are 1 left-turn lane, 2 through lanes, 1 lane painted with chevrons (hatch marks) indicating that no traffic should drive there, and 1 right turn lane.

My hunch was that the eastbound busses were driving on the hatch-marked lane but my vantage point wasn't the best. They could also have been on the right-most through lane. Next time I'm there, I'll take proper note and let you know.

To me, it makes sense that they use the hatch-marked lane because that ensures there's no traffic behind the bus that would possibly crash into the bus as the bus unexpectedly slows down before clearing the intersection.

 

[wilson_wu]

I will never complain about Viva's signal system for the Highway 404 underpass ever again.

I went to Amsterdam where trams are forced to share the track in both directions (similar to Viva's 404 underpass). Only they didn't have signals and drivers just had to rely on their intuition and communicate with other tram drivers.

LOL On my first day, I saw trams get stuck in these areas not once, but twice. Funny watching tram operators swear up a storm once they get stuck and are forced to deboard everyone. I've got pics, will post later lol.

 

[strookie]

I'll be able to check this in the next couple of days. The newsletter is not detailed enough. It does not show all 5 northbound lanes. In order from left to right, they are 1 left-turn lane, 2 through lanes, 1 lane painted with chevrons (hatch marks) indicating that no traffic should drive there, and 1 right turn lane.

My hunch was that the eastbound busses were driving on the hatch-marked lane but my vantage point wasn't the best. They could also have been on the right-most through lane. Next time I'm there, I'll take proper note and let you know.

To me, it makes sense that they use the hatch-marked lane because that ensures there's no traffic behind the bus that would possibly crash into the bus as the bus unexpectedly slows down before clearing the intersection.

Leo_Chan: The eastbound Purple does indeed take the right-most through lane rather than the hatch-marked lane.

I watched for about 20 minutes this morning and left with the impression that the drivers had become much more comfortable with the turns. The eastbound Purple busses negotiated the turn much faster and smoother. It still looked awkward with the cars caught behind them wondering why the bus slowed down, but I don't see that as a risk for accidents. However, the westbound purple is still having difficulty pushing to the right-most southbound lane. I saw one westbound bus refuse its left-turn transit priority signal and wait for the next cycle, because there were two full-length semi trucks negotiating a right turn from eastbound Hwy 7 to southbound Keele. So much for bus rapid transit.

 

[44 North]

I will never complain about Viva's signal system for the Highway 404 underpass ever again.

I went to Amsterdam where trams are forced to share the track in both directions (similar to Viva's 404 underpass). Only they didn't have signals and drivers just had to rely on their intuition and communicate with other tram drivers.

LOL On my first day, I saw trams get stuck in these areas not once, but twice. Funny watching tram operators swear up a storm once they get stuck and are forced to deboard everyone. I've got pics, will post later lol.

Wicked, thanks a lot for this video. I recall mentioning something like this in the King Transit Mall thread as a potential solution for certain spots to have larger sidewalks. Doubt it'd work well on King though, particularly with cars still in the mix.

 

[Megaton327]

I saw one westbound bus refuse its left-turn transit priority signal and wait for the next cycle, because there were two full-length semi trucks negotiating a right turn from eastbound Hwy 7 to southbound Keele. So much for bus rapid transit.

This is a temporary arrangement until TYSSE opens--this was never supposed to run, actually. If you'd have preferred, the alternative was for the rapidway to sit 100% unused until the end of the year. I prefer this. Purple buses turning southbound there often had to wait several light cycles, not one. Once TYSSE opens, buses won't be turning off the rapidway to regular lanes here, or anywhere else along its length.

 

[Leo_Chan]

This is a temporary arrangement until TYSSE opens--this was never supposed to run, actually. If you'd have preferred, the alternative was for the rapidway to sit 100% unused until the end of the year. I prefer this. Purple buses turning southbound there often had to wait several light cycles, not one. Once TYSSE opens, buses won't be turning off the rapidway to regular lanes here, or anywhere else along its length.

Not to mention Viva will no longer run to York University, you'll have to transfer at VMC Subway Station. IMO, not very efficient.