YRT/Viva Construction Thread (Rapidways, Terminals)

[Leo_Chan]

I have a crazy conspiracy theory (ok maybe not that crazy).

But does anyone find it strange that the Viva green, silver, purple and orange routes end at Yonge and wont cross from east into west? It's so counter intuitive to cross-regional travel. Anyone think they're doing this to artificially inflate numbers for the Viva Blue Yonge line so they can justify their Yonge subway?

It's also strange that they could also divert their Markham Express routes directly to the Highway 407 subway station, but they instead choose to make buses exit the 407 and crawl through dense Yonge St traffic to Finch Station. Another case of artificially inflating the number of buses travelling down Yonge.

Then how do you explain the present Viva Pink? It runs from Highway 7 to RHC and then down Yonge. If they really wanted to inflate Viva Blue, they can make Viva Pink end at RHC, of course this would be the same as the future Viva Purple. This is similar with the future Viva Orange as well.

Another way to inflate Viva Blue riders is to have a have a Viva Green and Silver turn onto Yonge and use the Viva Station at Yonge and Major Mackenzie, then they turn back. This will make the transfer to Viva Blue easier and the other way around, as well as infante the usage of Blue.

Of course they can't make it THAT obvious they are trying put all the load on Viva Blue so that the YNSE is built.

 

[Leo_Chan]

not really...TTC do that for plenty of their EW routes that cross yonge st.... sheppard E/W, Steeles E/W, Lawrence E/W... its probably more to do with the length of the route than ridership imo

Having Purple/Orange and Green/Silver be just 2 routes would remove the transfer, but short turning may be required.

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

Jeeze, not everything is a conspiracy.

I remember seeing a presentation during the EA for the 407 Transitway where they predicted something like 85% of riders coming from the east would get off at Yonge and get on the subway (or RER!) going south. Very few, in their model, kept going - even on the very fast and direct 407 BRT - over to the Spadina line.

Is MTO also artificially driving up (hypothetical) traffic on the single longest and most important artery in the entire region?

Traffic - especially bus traffic - on Yonge is so dense, I think it's really cynical to assume they're sending people that way on purpose in lieu of more efficient routes.

 

[amnesiajune]

TTC do that for plenty of their EW routes that cross yonge st.... sheppard E/W, Steeles E/W, Lawrence E/W... its probably more to do with the length of the route than ridership imo

It's mainly because of how bus routes are operated - each route generally has one nearby garage that serves it. Longer routes require multiple garages, which is more complicated to organize, so the TTC tries to avoid that. Right now there are only two daytime routes that need to be served by multiple bus garages - Jane and York Mills.

 

[wilson_wu]

I apologize for the delay in responding to you. I needed to gather the correct information.

When Viva purple is restructured to operate two branches of service between Town Centre Boulevard and Kennedy Road service will operate as follows:

Viva purple will operate only on the Highway 7 branch during weekday rush hours, providing 15 minute service. Service along Enterprise Boulevard during rush hours will continue to be provided by Viva pink (every 15 minutes) and Viva green (every 23 minutes).

Outside of weekday rush hours (during midday, evenings, and weekends), Viva purple will alternate between the Highway 7 and Enterprise Boulevard branches. Frequency of service will be approximately 30 minutes on each branch, or a combined frequency of approximately 15 minutes along the common portion of the route. Route 1 – Highway 7 will also continue to provide local service along Highway 7. YRT/Viva will monitor and adjust the service if demand warrants.
Upon opening of the Spadina Subway Extension at the end of 2017, Viva orange service will be restructure to operate to Richmond Hill Centre Terminal. In 2019, Viva orange service will be extended to Highway 7 at Highway 50 in the west. From Promenade Terminal, a new branch will be introduced that will extend to Finch GO Bus Terminal. Currently, frequency of service on both the Richmond Hill Centre branch and the Finch GO Bus Terminal branch are expected to operate at 15 minute frequency.

30 minute frequencies servicing the emerging Downtown Markham for most of the day + weekends. Are they f-ing kidding me?

While Promenade Terminal-Highway 50 will have a combined 7.5 minute service all day? (I don't think it's going to last. lol)

 

[Starflyer]

Does anyone else not like the new white-on-blue street signs they are using along rapidways? The green York Region ones are much more aesthetically pleasing and larger, the blue ones are tiny and harder to see. I have a feeling the design was chosen as an attempt to mimic Toronto.

 

[Leo_Chan]

Does anyone else not like the new white-on-blue street signs they are using along rapidways? The green York Region ones are much more aesthetically pleasing and larger, the blue ones are tiny and harder to see. I have a feeling the design was chosen as an attempt to mimic Toronto.

The new blue street signs York Region is now using on the new street scaping doesn't bother me a lot, but it does stand out. Blue and white are the York Region colours, and they do fit in with the darker gray street posts (lamps and traffic lights).

At least the street sign are larger than Toronto's seemingly tiny street signs, where most of the time require detective work to spot. Is it close right? Close left? Far right? Far left? Far mid? Not even in the intersection? Who do we survive like this? Of course you just have to remember and keep track of your general location.

 

[MisterF]

30 minute frequencies servicing the emerging Downtown Markham for most of the day + weekends. Are they f-ing kidding me?

That's what happens when you try to develop a city centre on the interior of a concession block instead of along established travel corridors. 30 minute frequencies are terrible, especially if there's a transfer involved.

 

[Leo_Chan]

I found some renders of the VMC Viva Station, but I don't know if these are official or not:

http://www.autodesk.com/solutions/bim/hub/2016-entry-393?linkId=32629927

 

[wilson_wu]

That's what happens when you try to develop a city centre on the interior of a concession block instead of along established travel corridors. 30 minute frequencies are terrible, especially if there's a transfer involved.

One solution could be the operation of a Viva shuttle line between McCowan<->Montgomery via DT Markham.

The western portion could exit the rapidway by getting a transit priority signal to turn left at Rodick. And reenter the rapidway at Fairburn.
The eastern portion could simply follow the routing of Viva Green.

Two of the largest trip generators and most used stops in Markham are at Montgomery and McCowan.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I have a crazy conspiracy theory (ok maybe not that crazy).

But does anyone find it strange that the Viva green, silver, purple and orange routes end at Yonge and wont cross from east into west? It's so counter intuitive to cross-regional travel. Anyone think they're doing this to artificially inflate numbers for the Viva Blue Yonge line so they can justify their Yonge subway?

It's also strange that they could also divert their Markham Express routes directly to the Highway 407 subway station, but they instead choose to make buses exit the 407 and crawl through dense Yonge St traffic to Finch Station. Another case of artificially inflating the number of buses travelling down Yonge.

The TTC does it, partly because routes become increasingly unreliable as their length increases. A collision along Eglinton in Scarborough could disrupt service on Eglinton in Etobicoke. Splitting the routes isolates any disruption.

 

[raptor]

From link:
beginning Sunday, YRT Route 77 and Viva Purple to service vivastations in rapidway

 

[Megaton327]

From link:
beginning Sunday, YRT Route 77 and Viva Purple to service vivastations in rapidway

Very minimal coverage for Purple, but actually very useful. The westbound-to-southbound left turn lane on Highway 7 to get onto Keele is jammed for much of the day--it's a very short signal and lets very few cars through, let alone articulated buses. I've been waiting behind a Viva Purple bus in that lane for 15-20 minutes at least. This way it can jump the queue with a dedicated transit signal.

 

[amnesiajune]

I'm curious as to why the 1 Highway 7 bus doesn't do something similar. It could use the rapidway between Bayview and the 404 and only lose one stop, or use the rapidway to Woodbine and only lose two.

 

[Leo_Chan]

I'm curious as to why the 1 Highway 7 bus doesn't do something similar. It could use the rapidway between Bayview and the 404 and only lose one stop, or use the rapidway to Woodbine and only lose two.

Because they don't want to lose those stop(s). The difference with Route 77 is because by chance there are no stops that the Rapidway do not provide with the route.