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YRT/Viva Construction Thread (Rapidways, Terminals)
- Thread starter waterloowarrior
- Start date
tapper of spines
New Member
taal
Senior Member
The later part will be a lot more difficult then you think, this will probably not even help. I know quite a few people from these parts, transit is the last thing on any of their minds.
The real focus here should be GO transit - even with a ROW all the way down Yonge it's still a very long trip to Hi-way 7 or Finch or downtown.
There's no density here and no real plans for more to be added - yes it's a place to go region but it's all singles / attaches (some townhomes).
This isn't even a bad thing in my mind - this is too far North, we have a lot of other areas to focus on in the southern GTA section.
So while this is a good idea, I believe in the end it'll be a waste of money compared to other routes which could benefit from such improvements.
BMO
Senior Member
pretty much the whole reason for VIVA IS to connect to the GO system, notice how in newmarket viva blue splits up along Green lane towards a GO staion, then further north along Davis dr towards another GO station....Oh yea and don't ferget Richmond Hill centre where they built a new brdige to connect to, yet again, a GO station, and wait wait, it goes to finch station which, guess what??, connects to GO buses, but it doesn't finish there the new rapidways towards markham centre connect to the Unionville GO line, and in the future the western portion of the highway 7 rapidways will connect to the Barrie Go and possibly another GO line furhte west near islington. The Yonge subway is mainly just to connect the main growht hub of Richmond Hill centre with the rest of the growth hubs in Toronto which will be connected by subway in the future eventually. I don't think the subway will be seriously considered for extension north of highway 7/16th until far far far far off into the future. So yes YRT/VIVA IS focusing on GO transit for most of York Region to get to Toronto
taal
Senior Member
pretty much the whole reason for VIVA IS to connect to the GO system, notice how in newmarket viva blue splits up along Green lane towards a GO staion, then further north along Davis dr towards another GO station....Oh yea and don't ferget Richmond Hill centre where they built a new brdige to connect to, yet again, a GO station, and wait wait, it goes to finch station which, guess what??, connects to GO buses, but it doesn't finish there the new rapidways towards markham centre connect to the Unionville GO line, and in the future the western portion of the highway 7 rapidways will connect to the Barrie Go and possibly another GO line furhte west near islington. The Yonge subway is mainly just to connect the main growht hub of Richmond Hill centre with the rest of the growth hubs in Toronto which will be connected by subway in the future eventually. I don't think the subway will be seriously considered for extension north of highway 7/16th until far far far far off into the future. So yes YRT/VIVA IS focusing on GO transit for most of York Region to get to Toronto
Thanks for that, good point - if it's a connection to GO it makes sense in Newmarket.
I know it's a place to grow but people actually think condo's will start going up here? Anyone else this this is pretty ridiculous? Maybe if they were cheep enough.
taal
Senior Member
I was reading, is the plan for Davis plan as follows:
For the interim, they're going to build two extra lanes on both sides of the road and the buses will run in them (not in the center). As traffic increases, they'll switch to using a center medium <- this will take 3 lanes.
Sounds like they're simply accommodating for cars off the get go, as it won't effect Davis drive.
For the interim, they're going to build two extra lanes on both sides of the road and the buses will run in them (not in the center). As traffic increases, they'll switch to using a center medium <- this will take 3 lanes.
Sounds like they're simply accommodating for cars off the get go, as it won't effect Davis drive.
scarberiankhatru
Senior Member
You quoted me saying that, though you don't seem to have read it.
BMO
Senior Member
I think it will attract the people who want a bit of a more small town feel, I mean they're planning for low to mid-rise buildings in this area, so like anywhere between 3-15 stories I'd imagine. So it will be a substantially different feel than that of NYCC or RHC for instance. As well because of its proximity to the Greenbelt/moraine it would also cater to the crowd who don't mind an urban living environment close to the natural environment. I think the reason it may seem as though they are catering to the car right off the bat, is because for many people in Newmarket it would be close to impossible to serve the by transit, as there are many large lot houses and what not, and most of them have no choice but to use the car to either A) get to the GO stations or B) use the 404 to get to Toronto, both options see cars going through davis dr or Green lane to get to those two. As time passes and the area intensifies then it is only natural that it would be more cost-efficient to serve these people by transit.
As for your point on it being realistic to see high-rises in Newmarket, I highly doubt that it would happen, people move to Newmarket to get away from all the high-rises so I would imagine there being a tremendous amount of opposition to the ALOT of intensitification, but as I said before low to mid-rise woud totally be appropriate for the area.
taal
Senior Member
I guess so : - ) But all the free swaths of land seem to be being developed with large subdivisions (on fifty foot lots) So I'm not sure where these mid rises will go. Maybe, along Yonge.
Davis is a pretty beet up street less the hospital, maybe they can build a few in that area. But again, I can't see who in their right mind would want to live there to be honest.
It makes more sense to have condos In Barrie then here in many ways.
taal
Senior Member
Indeed I did, sorry about that scarberiankhatru, skipped over the last part.
Second_in_pie
Senior Member
Definitely true. Newmarket's just too isolated from the rest of the GTA for any other mode of transportation to be viable. Even if there was a subway right up there, that'd be an hour to RHC, so almost 2 hours to downtown. Go can provide a base for the nodal growth that Newmarket needs.
I'm not sure about the official plan, because last time I've heard about Newmarket growth, it was being brought kicking and screaming away from suburban development, and they're opposed to a lot of densification. As a corridor, Yonge-Davis drive actually has a lot of potential, if you ask me. No high rise condos, but closer to that neo-European feel that's trying to be replicated with Transit City. Just some low-mid rise condos, with small shops and offices on the first floor and a scattering of small office buildings or whatever. Better Go service and Viva ROWs could help this, but the town would have to be committed to it, which I don't think they are.
taal
Senior Member
Funny thing is, having a subway on Davis wouldn't help I think! (well maybe a subway
) anyway the point is, why is York region focusing on this area. It's a waste of money! Let me say this carefully, will this help, yep! Is it a bad project, nope! But I'd much rather see them improve service on feeder routes (take all those routes other routes that go into finch).Yep I can picture Davis that way - in the sense there's not much there now after the hospital that could not simply be demolished. But then the question of demand arises again. It may work if the prices are low, very very low.
I've just ran this by a bunch of people I knew who live in Newmarket - and they literary laughed at the idea of living in a condo there. I don't even blame them!
Our greenbelt program has its merits but building little nodes of density with large swaths of low density in between isn't the way to go. This should not be a 'place to grow' for a very long time. Barrie on the other hand should be! so its not distance that's a factor here it's the composition of the population and where the majority of them work.
TJ O'Pootertoot
Senior Member
There are two problems here.
1) There ARE real plans for more density. It is earmarked in Places to Grow as a growth node so there WILL be intensification. Anyone who has driven the stretch near YR HQ is can see how ready the east side of Yonge is for intensification. It might not be 30-storey towers all over the place but it will certainly be different from what's there now.
Since detached houses in Newmarket average something like $330K, I expect any condos would be cheap and the region is already looking at intensification on land they own along Eagle Drive.
I'm not going to link to Newmarket's OP but it's all in there already.
I will say that Newmarket was one of the first munis in the province to get its OP in conformity with Places to Grow so I'm not sure where someone could say they were "dragged kicking and screaming" into doing so.
2) When you say it's "too far north" and that it's a long route to take transit to Toronto you miss the entire point of Places to Grow (ie the province's planning law).
The point isn't to make sure everyone can get to Toronto - it's to create pockets of intensification all over the GTAH. Newmarket's intensification has little to do with Toronto, beyond the obvious GO connections.
The point of intensifying is to help Newmarket and York Region stop sprawling.
I don't have the province's map in front of me but there must be 20+ growth nodes mandated.
If all you can do is look at it and say, "Gee, what's the point of intensifying in St. Catherine's - it's so far south of the city!" you're really missing the central point of the entire planning regime, which is to create work-live spaces in the suburbs so not everyone is driving to/from downtown Toronto.
Then you have Metrolinx weaving together a big network of which Toronto is obviously a key part, and I can see you're not the only one in the thread to make this mistake but it's amusing (particularly on the Yonge subway thread) to see how many people assume that the only point of transit is to get people downtown. It isn't.
(For the record - I'm not 100% sold the Davis Stub but there is A LOT of employment going on in that area and it is a traffic mess so, all things considered, I'd say it's probably the way to go.)
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taal
Senior Member
That seems all well and good in principle but I think you missed the last point of my post.
Recall I said Barrie should be a place to grow! Clearly I don't have an issue with location.
As of today, Newmarket is very much a bedroom comunity. Yes there are some jobs but the majority of people don't work there. Moreover, a lot of those jobs that are growing are simply warehousing which doesn't really employ very many people.
If this changes slowly over time I by your point. Currently it's not though, also, I don't think it's a great idea for it to change right now - why spread employment so thin in the GTA, why not focus on the the area around hi-way 7 and VCC and that whole stretch - there's so much more potential there.
Sure we could build employment everywhere but that defeats the point no?
Regarding your comment on Davis drive though, 100% correct it can get pretty bad traffic wise - it's a feeder route to Yonge - there's not much on the street less the Go station and hospital.
Recall I said Barrie should be a place to grow! Clearly I don't have an issue with location.
As of today, Newmarket is very much a bedroom comunity. Yes there are some jobs but the majority of people don't work there. Moreover, a lot of those jobs that are growing are simply warehousing which doesn't really employ very many people.
If this changes slowly over time I by your point. Currently it's not though, also, I don't think it's a great idea for it to change right now - why spread employment so thin in the GTA, why not focus on the the area around hi-way 7 and VCC and that whole stretch - there's so much more potential there.
Sure we could build employment everywhere but that defeats the point no?
Regarding your comment on Davis drive though, 100% correct it can get pretty bad traffic wise - it's a feeder route to Yonge - there's not much on the street less the Go station and hospital.
BMO
Senior Member
Yea but then again don't forget Newmarket and Vaughan are two distinct municipalities, Newmarket still wants to generate jobs to gain more taxes and what not, it won't just let its jobs leave and go to Vaughan.