YRT/Viva Construction Thread (Rapidways, Terminals)

[leopetr]

YRT sure spending a lot of money on huge, extravagant VIVA shelters that will never be used even close to their capacity. And yet, at the same time, none of regular bus shelters have any system maps...

New Viva shelters are a capital cost which is funded by provincial income/corporate/sales taxes.

Maps for regular bus shelters are a operational cost which is funded by municipal property taxes.

One of those sources of revenue doesn't scale with inflation.

 

[xtremesniper]

YRT sure spending a lot of money on huge, extravagant VIVA shelters that will never be used even close to their capacity. And yet, at the same time, none of regular bus shelters have any system maps...

Never? Do you really think so? Given the amount of people who pile on at most stations right now (off the top of my head, any of Valleymede, Richmond Hill Centre, Promenade Mall, and York U (obviously) all day long, and even other stations during peak hours) I think it won't be long before these stations will be full of people all the time. Not only that, but the sub-section inside where there is actual wind/rain/snow protection is where all the people will be jamming into. I'm still peeved that they haven't seemed to learn from their mistakes from designing RHC, given that most of the riders will still be exposed to the elements.

Regardless, with Markham Centre being built, you can be assured that these stops will be getting pretty busy.

And the system maps are on the Vivastation machines themselves, last I checked.

 

[doady]

Never? Do you really think so? Given the amount of people who pile on at most stations right now (off the top of my head, any of Valleymede, Richmond Hill Centre, Promenade Mall, and York U (obviously) all day long, and even other stations during peak hours)

Somehow I doubt the Warden/Enterprise will see the same ridership as York University.

And the system maps are on the Vivastation machines themselves, last I checked.

There are only VIVA system maps at VIVA stations. There's more to YRT than juat VIVA, last I checked.

 

[reaperexpress]

Somehow I doubt the Warden/Enterprise will see the same ridership as York University.

But you never said that. You said:

YRT sure spending a lot of money on huge, extravagant VIVA shelters that will never be used even close to their capacity.

York University has a higher capacity than Warden/Enterprise. Problem Solved.

 

[taal]

I saw one in person today ... almost complete ... wow, I think it looks good but I'm not really sure : ) - it kind of has a prison feel to it.

Is it ever big / overpowering though! ... it does scream a little bit overboard though - I'm really curious how much each one of these cost.

Capacity isn't really a issue ... people could just as happily wait on the side walk as they currently do. It's nice how the asphalt (including the road) is red. The only thing about that is if you notice, all viva bus stops are like that and they tend to turn dull pink after a while.

I really should of took a picture ... It's really quite large.

 

[xtremesniper]

Somehow I doubt the Warden/Enterprise will see the same ridership as York University.



There are only VIVA system maps at VIVA stations. There's more to YRT than juat VIVA, last I checked.

I'm missing your point, on both counts. Not only are you conveniently forgetting what is planned for the Warden/Enterprise corner in the next 5 years, you just named another Viva station down the line that was busy anyway.

And as for system maps, the only ones that are easy to read are the Viva maps. Instead of posting up useless and impossible to read maps (seriously, have you seen what they look like lately?), YRT is focussing more on getting people to use their trip planner site or their phone/txt/email service to get people to where they're going.

And nowadays more and more people have smartphones so they can simply load up Google Maps and hit the "transit" overlay to see the system map if they really want to.

Whenever I see a TTC system map (which I haven't seen in years except in the downtown core in a few select spots), they're warn out, old, or watered down by the rain. Waste of money.

 

[reaperexpress]

And as for system maps, the only ones that are easy to read are the Viva maps. Instead of posting up useless and impossible to read maps (seriously, have you seen what they look like lately?), YRT is focussing more on getting people to use their trip planner site or their phone/txt/email service to get people to where they're going.

The Viva maps may be easy to read, but they are missing the vast majority of YRT's routes, making them completely useless for most of trips. YRTs maps are definitely more cluttered, but they make up for it in having all necessary information. The only location I'm aware of that has a YRT system map posted is Richmond Hill Centre, and I see people looking at that map far more often than I see people looking at the Viva map. Adding more YRT maps in shelters should definitely be a priority.

And nowadays more and more people have smartphones so they can simply load up Google Maps and hit the "transit" overlay to see the system map if they really want to.

I don't have a smartphone. Does that mean that I'm not allowed to know where I'm going? You can't just assume everyone will have some technology, because many people will not, and you will inconvenience them.

Whenever I see a TTC system map (which I haven't seen in years except in the downtown core in a few select spots), they're warn out, old, or watered down by the rain. Waste of money.

Quite frankly, I'd rather have a worn out map than no map at all. I doubt they would be watered down by the rain, because they are in shelters. The whole point of shelters is that they keep out the rain.

 

[APTA-2048]

The Viva maps may be easy to read, but they are missing the vast majority of YRT's routes, making them completely useless for most of trips. YRTs maps are definitely more cluttered, but they make up for it in having all necessary information. The only location I'm aware of that has a YRT system map posted is Richmond Hill Centre, and I see people looking at that map far more often than I see people looking at the Viva map. Adding more YRT maps in shelters should definitely be a priority.

Newmarket Terminal has a map for sure and I think Finch does too. I think they are usefull. When I'm in Newmarket where I'm not that familiar with the area, it just takes a quick look to plan out where you are heading and then you just hop on the right bus. I agree they should be expanded to heavily used shelters.

Also with the Viva buses that were bought in 2008, inside they have a large board on the compartment over the engine. When they were new I thought they would put system maps there, but last I've seen the boards remain blank.

Quite frankly, I'd rather have a worn out map than no map at all. I doubt they would be watered down by the rain, because they are in shelters. The whole point of shelters is that they keep out the rain.

It's not very common, but it does happen. Moisture finds it's way behind the glass and the paper starts to deteriorate. There's also the problem of fading from the sun.

 

[xtremesniper]

I don't have a smartphone. Does that mean that I'm not allowed to know where I'm going? You can't just assume everyone will have some technology, because many people will not, and you will inconvenience them.

I never said everyone had a smartphone or that everyone will have a smartphone, but it's one of those things that should be considered as a factor. As I mentioned, YRT is already investing a lot into technology that allows people to find out where they are going not only via smartphones, but also through traditional phone service as well. You DO have a phone... right?

I don't doubt that it will help people to have those maps up, and I think it's obviously important to have them situated in major transit terminals like they are now. I just think it's just a matter of determining where to put priority on spending. Putting those maps up at every stop and keeping them maintained will cost more than you think. (union wages are well known to drain public money, and guess who's going to be putting those maps up?).

 

[reaperexpress]

I never said everyone had a smartphone or that everyone will have a smartphone, but it's one of those things that should be considered as a factor. As I mentioned, YRT is already investing a lot into technology that allows people to find out where they are going not only via smartphones, but also through traditional phone service as well. You DO have a phone... right?

No, I don't have a cell phone, and my home phone doesn't do me much good when I'm waiting for the bus. I do appreciate that YRT is investing in various forms of technology though. They should definitely continue to do so. However, that doesn't mean they can just give up on conventional methods of communication.

I don't doubt that it will help people to have those maps up, and I think it's obviously important to have them situated in major transit terminals like they are now. I just think it's just a matter of determining where to put priority on spending. Putting those maps up at every stop and keeping them maintained will cost more than you think. (union wages are well known to drain public money, and guess who's going to be putting those maps up?).

Like you said, it isn't worthwhile to put maps at every stop, especially since they're available on the bus anyway. Maybe just put them at a few more key locations that aren't terminals.

 

[taal]

So I got to see the new Viva like stops that'll be used in the bus ways yesterday up front. This is at Enterprise and Warden. To start they're big - a little to big in my opinion in the sense they overwhelm the area. They're nice otherwise - it's a little awkward as it looks like they've left some space so the glass shelter can be expanded if streetcars (long ones) are ever used. The've paved the area around the stop with brick - it's pretty nice overall.

I'll try to get pictures soon.

Interestingly though - the first condos in downtown Markham are directly over the bus line ... not sure I'd like living there if it were ever converted to a streetcar or anything louder - there's very little space between the building and the transit way - none at all.

 

[taal]

I think the busway in the downtown Markham area may have that issue but elsewhere it should be okay ... it seems the brick was only used in that area - or whatever looks like brick. It looks like they're using the pukish red colour on the ground elsewhere - it looks good the first week till it starts to fade out.

It seems big to me in multiple ways - if you're in the middle you need to walk all the way around to get in - this probably isn't a concern as people will generally walk in from the sides ... it's bulky as well - it just looks big, I dunno, maybe it's fine.

What's the next section that's going to be built ?

 

[reaperexpress]

I think the busway in the downtown Markham area may have that issue but elsewhere it should be okay ... it seems the brick was only used in that area - or whatever looks like brick. It looks like they're using the pukish red colour on the ground elsewhere - it looks good the first week till it starts to fade out.

It seems big to me in multiple ways - if you're in the middle you need to walk all the way around to get in - this probably isn't a concern as people will generally walk in from the sides ... it's bulky as well - it just looks big, I dunno, maybe it's fine.

What's the next section that's going to be built ?

They were laying the brick when I was there and I'm pretty sure it's brick. I think they used it on the entire busway, except for the jughandle west of Warden.

I think the next in line for "rapidways" is Highway 7 between Bayview and Warden. The vivaNext schedule says Yonge to Warden, but I seem to remember the YRT announcements saying Bayview to Warden. The schedule on the website might simply be out of date.

As for when this particular busway will be finished, the schedule claims that construction will restart in 2016 and finish in 2020. So we're stuck with this useless piece of infrastructure for at least a decade.

On the bright side, we now have a BRT-worthy location for photo ops. It's been used once already (unveiling the new viva buses) and it will definitely be used again.

 

[wilson_wu]

The station is almost done except for a few finishing touches.

One thing that concerns me is the lack of signage to identify the station name. And it appears to be lacking in renderings of these shelters too! It would be nice if they had backlit signage of station names like the VIVA Phase I stops.

The shared busway/pedestrian walkway features unique park-like lighting. Surprisingly bright, I was a bit worried when they opted against conventional street lighting for the busway.

A look at the brightness of the new stations. Very bright considering they didn't go with flourescent tube lighting,

A general look at the platforms. Note the tactile strips on the floor of the platform edge. Things still to be installed include two-way emergency communication boxes between riders and YRT Transit Control and telephones.

The heated enclosed shelter portion of the station.

Inside the heated enclosed shelter portion of the station. Needs more lighting IMO.

Assessing the narrowest part of the platform. Not too narrow!

Comparing the old VIVA shelters to the mammoth-sized new ones. Odd wayfinding signage.

 

[taal]

Great pictures! But I have to say, seeing this beast in person on a couple occasions you really don't get a feel for how large / imposing the station is in those pictures.

I like the finishings used throughout for the most part though!