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York Region Transit: Viva service thread

How was it a disaster? For much of the 20th century, it was common to use the waterfront for industrial purposes.

Most of the landfill that the THC created throughout the 20th century remained empty even during Toronto's industrial peak during WWII. The THC essentially wasted millions of dollars to build surface parking lots. By the 1970s, when the THC realized that there was just no demand for new industrial land along the waterfront, it pivoted to real estate development, which was also a disaster.

What the THC did with the waterfront was the equivalent to building a subway line out into the middle of nowhere based on the hope that private developers will build there and that the initial expenses can be partially recouped through development fees. This is exactly the kind of developer-centred planning that we've long decried in Toronto. Since these arms-length organizations tend to be isolated from the public, they become more easily co-opted by private enterprise. This charge has be laid against the THC, the TPA, and the OMB.

If an arms-length transit authority is anything like these other organizations, it would place a much higher priority on building subways out to speculative real estate projects than building out to communities like Thorncliffe and Malvern that actually need to be connected to transit.
 
I wish we could go back to the 416/905 divide. Ever since Ford became mayor, it has become Toronto, York, and East York versus Etobicoke, North York, and Scarborough.

Though really, enough with the versus stuff. Cities in the 21st century have enough time competing on the global stage without infighting between neighbourhoods and suburbs.
 
The 416/905 divide is stupid. Always has been.

And now it's the 416/437/647/289/365/905 divide. I guess we should be lucky that after 905 got added they started doing overlays.

Although it'd be interesting if they had done 905 as an overlay instead of a geographic split. Then there'd have never been a 416/905 divide.
 
The 416/905 divide is stupid. Always has been.

And now it's the 416/437/647/289/365/905 divide. I guess we should be lucky that after 905 got added they started doing overlays.

Although it'd be interesting if they had done 905 as an overlay instead of a geographic split. Then there'd have never been a 416/905 divide.

This is probably best suited for another thread but it's rather germane to what's been discussed on the past few pages...

http://www.neptis.org/nota-bene/news/rethinking-governance-enable-seamless-regional-travel

I love that this is the intro:

Imagine being able to travel from Hamilton to Oshawa, or from Pickering to Richmond Hill on a single ticket. And imagine buying that ticket online from a website that coordinates the schedules involved while offering you a discount for travelling during off-peak hours. Could such a thing happen in the GTHA?

IMAGINE!? It's sad we need imagination to figure out how to do something so basic, and yet here we are. If you can get in your car and do it in less than an hour, it shouldn't be hard to IMAGINE doing it by transit with a single fare system. Siiiigh. I've only read the first of the two posts but it's good.

[EDIT: I've read both now and they're great. The fare integration one is especially forceful and really makes you wonder what the heck our problem is.]
 
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hamilton to oshawa is considerably more than an hour by car, even when you are going at 2 am on a sunday. (the only time nowadays that seems to have no traffic on the 401)
 
hamilton to oshawa is considerably more than an hour by car, even when you are going at 2 am on a sunday. (the only time nowadays that seems to have no traffic on the 401)

I wrote something needlessly sarcastic about how you'd just shot my argument to heck, and deleted it. I'll just say,"sigh," if that's alright with you.
 
hamilton to oshawa is considerably more than an hour by car, even when you are going at 2 am on a sunday. (the only time nowadays that seems to have no traffic on the 401)
The Main Street 403 interchange in Hamilton to the Stevenson interchange in Oshawa is about 120 km. You should be able to do this in an hour at 2 AM on a Sunday - unless you are the only one on the highway driving the speed limit!
 
(roll my eyes)

I think you're thinking of the subway Toronto council just approved?

The TRCA is funded regionally, because it is regional in scope. Transit should be funded regionally, because it is regional in scope. Got it?

No I'm talking about paying for subways and buses and even streetcars. Easy to cooperate with the TRCA when it's not costing billions.

Now that Wynne backed her way into a majority government you can pray to your god Metrolinx that they'll build the subway from your childhood home in North York to your (soon to be increased in value) palace in Thornhill.
 
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Are you asking, really, or as a hypothetical ideal, where we live in a world where everyone travels in free buses on empty roads?

No, I'm not in unicorn-transit land; and the roads I live near are all clogged with cars, but the buses are mostly empty still.

I might agree with you that transit is a "service" but it doesn't change the fact it's paid for through a combination of taxes and fares, staffed by employees and decisions are made by politicians. York Region isn't unique in having a fare recovery target. How transit is funded (or rather not funded) in this country is a huge issue but the idea that YR council wants to achieve a balanced subsidy is not, by itself, some sort of evil.

I understand the need for budgets; but where the rubber meets the road, do people feel they are getting "value" for the "service" they are paying for? For $4 a pop, I'd expect a premium service, and honestly it sucks. I'm just afraid this will be a cycle; as ridership remains anemic, they'll raise fares and cut service, rinse and repeat, to fulfill the mythical "balanced subsidy" number.

(And FWIW, the number of patrons served has gone up exponentially in the past decade. I don't think "patrons served" is any more a metric of success than a balanced budget, unless you manage a McDonald's. Transit should be easy to use, relatively inexpensive and get you where you need to go in a reasonable amount of time. As previously discussed, there are several factors beyond the control of council or YRT [i.e. YR's huge size, the TTC on its border] that make all of this difficult.)

I agree, some of it is difficult, and some of it is beyond the control of council or YRT.
But, some of it is not; and it doesn't seem that is addressed either.
As an example, while the "Ride to GO" option is on the Fare card, it's not well advertised or explained. When I called into the YRT switchboard, they said it could only be used with a Bus that actually links to a GO station. (When I contacted GO, however, they explained if you use a presto card, as long as you connect in the transfer time, you'll get the "Ride to GO" credit")

So now YRT is hiring an employee to check where everyone is getting off the bus? Or do we go by the honour system - put a jar by the rear doors? What you're talking about is fare integration and that has to happen at the provincial level; YRT can't do it. There's "creative thinking," and then there's impossible-to-implement solutions to complex, systemic issues with transit in the GTA.

My idea was TTC transfer+$1 allows you to get on a bus that runs to Steeles. No transfers allowed to other buses.

Fare integration helps, I agree; but it's not like the YRT and the TTC are mortal enemies, and there is no reason they can't talk about a way to get more riders between the TTC and the YRT more smoothly.
The problem is no one wants to cut into their own Fare revenue to make this happen, so we have to be content to wait until Metrolinx/the province beats them over the head and forces them.

I'm a taxpayer(I hate that term) and a (sometimes) YRT user; why do I have to talk to my MPP when York Region and YRT could pilot a project even WITHOUT the TTC's help?

As a transit user, I shouldn't need to know that this is an inter-regional pissing match over fares.

The region has been moving to concentrate transit service and development on corridors, including Bathurst. That's not really any more unusual than knowing that you can get better service closer to Yonge Street in Toronto. It's clear their cuts to the local routes are making things difficult - I'm not being glib - but, yeah, live closer to the main streets in a suburban municipality and you have a better shot at reliable service.

I used to live near Dufferin and Steeles, which had great Transit service. Even the smaller feeder buses were decent. Transit in York region; not so much so. And, in case you think I'm living in some rural wasteland, in a couple of years I'll be a long-ish walk away from a subway station.
I know YRT has a lot of ground to cover, but "our service sucks, but if you move it might be better" is a cop out. Raise my taxes, run a proper service, more people will consider it viable, and ridership will go up.

These are growing pains- YR is bumping up against the limits of what it can do on its own. It's a suburb trying to be more transit oriented but confronting a lot of issues. Maybe I'm naive about their hearts being largely in the right place but it's not the sort of thing you can change overnight.

I'm more venting out loud then taking issue with much of what you say; and I agree, change takes some time. But I really to feel the political direction needs to be about building a proper service, not trying to manage how much the subsidy cost per ride is. And if we allow THAT to be how service is allocated (cut/delivered), things will continue to get worse, I'm afraid.
 
My idea was TTC transfer+$1 allows you to get on a bus that runs to Steeles. No transfers allowed to other buses.

Fare integration helps, I agree; but it's not like the YRT and the TTC are mortal enemies, and there is no reason they can't talk about a way to get more riders between the TTC and the YRT more smoothly.
The problem is no one wants to cut into their own Fare revenue to make this happen, so we have to be content to wait until Metrolinx/the province beats them over the head and forces them.

I totally agree on about every count. The various transit agencies seem too concerned with the person putting the fare in the box and, as you say, riders shouldn't have to know or think about that they're going on this kind of bus or that kind of bus; the whole network needs to be more transparent.

That $1 fare is a good idea but I don't see how that can happen without Metrolinx. I don't think the two transit systems are enemies but I think there's a long history of turf and, though I'd love to be proven wrong, think TTC has no interest in taking a $1 fare there just to help York Region riders get to Finch easier. It's such an obvious idea I have to think someone tried it at some point. We need a regional body to resolve fare issues and then, hopefully, some of these other related issues can be worked out.

(They did do a pilot in a similar vein for the Viva Orange to York University. Maybe some bold thinker will try something more ambitious regarding Steeles.)
 
YRT is now testing real-time VMS at their conventional YRT stops (this one is westbound Highway 7 at Leslie St.) in addition to those that already exist at Viva stops.

TcUvkEx.jpg


Photo by YRT
 
now they just need to install more regular bus shelters in the first place. Too often they have a simple concrete pad (if that) at bus stops instead of installing an actual shelter.
 

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