News   Jul 12, 2024
199 Church Showcases Heritage Facade and Artwork at Street Level
 1.1K     0 
News   Jul 12, 2024
Six Points Plaza Redevelopment Advances With 36-Storey First Phase
 984     1 
News   Jul 12, 2024
Trading Spaces: Can Real Estate Conversion Help Boost Housing Supply?
 370     0 

York Region Transit: Viva service thread

I loved the Van Hools and I still prefer them to the Novas. The primary issue is that Van Hool seemed to have made better use of space and didn't bother wasting internal cabin space to accommodate the mechanics below the passengers.

The new Novas seem to just route whatever mechanics they need without considering the cabin space, and then they simply plop the passengers on top of that. What results is a narrow, and awfully ugly mess. Try walking past someone who is standing near the back of one of the Nova artics. The aisle is so narrow, and the passenger seats face toward the aisle, so you basically have to give someone a lap-dance just to get by.

Even the exterior design just reeks of attempting to copy Van Hool but coming up short instead. The smooth glass panels on the Van Hools make the side of the bus look sleek, and the lighting and window layout on the back is clean and refined. On the Novas, the sides look jaggy, and the back looks horrible with all the air vents and random "design" elements. Bah.

Typical North American clunky stuff as far as I'm concerned.
 
xtremesniper said:
I loved the Van Hools and I still prefer them to the Novas. The primary issue is that Van Hool seemed to have made better use of space and didn't bother wasting internal cabin space to accommodate the mechanics below the passengers.

The new Novas seem to just route whatever mechanics they need without considering the cabin space, and then they simply plop the passengers on top of that. What results is a narrow, and awfully ugly mess. Try walking past someone who is standing near the back of one of the Nova artics. The aisle is so narrow, and the passenger seats face toward the aisle, so you basically have to give someone a lap-dance just to get by.

Even the exterior design just reeks of attempting to copy Van Hool but coming up short instead. The smooth glass panels on the Van Hools make the side of the bus look sleek, and the lighting and window layout on the back is clean and refined. On the Novas, the sides look jaggy, and the back looks horrible with all the air vents and random "design" elements. Bah.

Typical North American clunky stuff as far as I'm concerned.
Click to expand...

Funny you mention that, because I feel the exact opposite about the Van Hools, which in my mind share some very, very unfortunate design "features" with the early Novas and the Orion VIs.

Mounting the engine and transmission package at the back corner of the bus or the middle between the first two axles removes a very substantial amount of interior space that should be allocated to the passengers. Granted that Van Hool managed to maximize the use of the remaining space, but nonetheless they are starting with a vehicle that only has a maximum of 80% or so of the capacity of a comparable 40 foot vehicle - and if you look at YRT's loading standards, it reflects that fact pretty clearly.

There is absolutely no reason why you can't mount the mechanical bits under the floor and seats, and in fact it can make some more accessible than mounting them up on the roof, where you now need things like catwalks and fall arrest equipment to service them.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
Public Meeting Scheduled for May 12th to discuss Transit in York Region.

http://www.yorkregion.com/news/article/1350077--forum-seeks-ways-to-get-transit-moving

Whether it’s all-day GO service or finally building the Yonge subway extension, someone is going to have to pay to expand transit in the GTA and that someone is you.
A group of experts will sit down with GTA residents in Markham May 12 to talk seriously about how to get transit moving across the region.
Such forums are critical for creating dialogue about the increasingly important issue, especially as it moves from the expert and academic level down to residents, University of Toronto planning professor Matti Siemiatycki said.
That’s precisely why Unionville Ratepayers Association president Peter Miasek wanted to put together Moving Forward — A Public Forum on Transportation and Transit.
It brings together some of the foremost experts on the matter, including Metrolinx vice-president John Howe, Richard Joy from the Toronto Board of Trade and academics such as Mr. Siemiatycki and University of Toronto Cities Centre chairperson Eric Miller.
Bringing them all to the table is the Federation of Urban Neighbourhoods, a collection of ratepayer groups, including the Markham Action Group for Improved Community, representing 40 neigbourhoods, the Federation of North Toronto Residents’ Associations and the Mississauga Residents’ Associations Network, who between them represent another 60 neighbourhoods.
Metrolinx is set to unveil its strategy for funding transit by mid-2013, but the discussion of what it might entail is increasingly on the minds and tongues of GTA residents.
Mr. Miasek has attended forums led by academics and professionals looking at the issues, but thought it was time to involve members of the public.
“I’m sure it’s growing, but there’s a ways to go,†Mr. Miasek said of the general tolerance for the ideas that will be on the table.
“We’ve missed out on a generation of building infrastructure and it’s starting to catch up with us in all sorts of different ways,†Mr. Siemiatycki said.
In recent months, the conversation has moved from where we draw routes on a map to how we’re going to pay to build them, he said.
A recent poll found 74 per cent of GTA residents are willing to put up with paying some kind of tax directed toward transit expansion and Mr. Miasek doesn’t think 905ers are any less willing than Torontonians to get the ball rolling.
“It’s not just a downtown issue; it’s a regional problem,†Mr. Siemiatycki said.
Mr. Miasek also takes heart from a 2008 referendum in Los Angeles, a city notorious for its car culture, in which residents voted to implement a sales tax that will raise $40 billion for transit expansion.
Some mix of a sales tax, parking levy and gas tax could spread the costs around and provide the needed funds, Mr. Miasek said.
Moving Forward is May 12 from 1 to 3 p.m. in council chambers at the Markham Civic Centre.
The forum is free, but reservations are required.
To reserve a spot or for information, visit urbanneighbourhoods.ca
Click to expand...
 
I have ridden all the artic's in NA and it makes no different who buses it is, the back end will be more of a rough ride than the front.

I still say at the end of the day, Van Hool bus is still the best of them.

I like sitting in the rear seats of the Van Hool buses follow by Nova, but use the high side seats in the front of the other buses.

When it comes to the 40' buses, I like the Van Hool and Nova design, but prefer NFI for ride performance.
 
smallspy said:
Funny you mention that, because I feel the exact opposite about the Van Hools, which in my mind share some very, very unfortunate design "features" with the early Novas and the Orion VIs.

Mounting the engine and transmission package at the back corner of the bus or the middle between the first two axles removes a very substantial amount of interior space that should be allocated to the passengers. Granted that Van Hool managed to maximize the use of the remaining space, but nonetheless they are starting with a vehicle that only has a maximum of 80% or so of the capacity of a comparable 40 foot vehicle - and if you look at YRT's loading standards, it reflects that fact pretty clearly.

There is absolutely no reason why you can't mount the mechanical bits under the floor and seats, and in fact it can make some more accessible than mounting them up on the roof, where you now need things like catwalks and fall arrest equipment to service them.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
Click to expand...

I get where you're coming from, but I guess I never really minded the blocky engine area in the Van Hools since the rest of the bus seemed so well designed. Low floors, thin walls, huge windows letting tons of sunlight in. I don't feel like a third class citizen while riding the Van Hools, unlike how I feel when riding the TTC buses.
 
You know, seeing as Toronto's LRT lines are to have stops every 400-500 metres, I wonder if YRT should consider adding Viva stops to a similar pattern, then re-routing the 98 and 99 buses to other arterial routes to improve their frequency. The Viva buses already tend to stop this frequently anyways, as they seem to catch at least one red between Vivastations anyways. I wanted to bring this up at the service plan meeting they held at Richmond Hill Centre, but I booked the wrong day off work...
 
Electrify said:
You know, seeing as Toronto's LRT lines are to have stops every 400-500 metres, I wonder if YRT should consider adding Viva stops to a similar pattern, then re-routing the 98 and 99 buses to other arterial routes to improve their frequency. The Viva buses already tend to stop this frequently anyways, as they seem to catch at least one red between Vivastations anyways. I wanted to bring this up at the service plan meeting they held at Richmond Hill Centre, but I booked the wrong day off work...
Click to expand...

As VIVA is envisioned as the "premium service" transit spine for the region why add more stations slowing down the route. Much like the subway in Toronto, VIVA is intended to have wider stop spacing vs normal buses. So why not let the 98/99 route serve the local stops and leave VIVA to serve the more significant stops, thus improving the speed of VIVA.

IF and WHEN VIVA gets around to being an in median reserved ROW BRT or LRT than it will be less affected by street lights.
 
Woodbridge_Heights said:
As VIVA is envisioned as the "premium service" transit spine for the region why add more stations slowing down the route. Much like the subway in Toronto, VIVA is intended to have wider stop spacing vs normal buses. So why not let the 98/99 route serve the local stops and leave VIVA to serve the more significant stops, thus improving the speed of VIVA.

IF and WHEN VIVA gets around to being an in median reserved ROW BRT or LRT than it will be less affected by street lights.
Click to expand...

The Viva would still have a wider stop spacing compared to the 98/99, but slightly more frequent than what is currently in place. Rather than one mid-block stop, there would be two to three (there are about eight on the local lines). This way, those buses on the 98 and 99 can be used to increase frequencies on other arteries.

For the record, I am not in favour of how Toronto's LRT lines are going to stop up to three times per block in order to eliminate the need for local routes. But if it turns out to provide substantial speed increases while freeing up buses to increase the frequencies on other routes, I think it should be something to consider.
 
canarob said:
Ridership in April (the first month since service was free) was up 1.4%. This is hardly spectacular growth, but after such a long strike it's great that ridership didn't decline. That being said, VIVA ridership is actually down.

http://www.york.ca/NR/rdonlyres/zrj...y4pfku5dhrle43wwqfihxvnf/jun+13+ridership.pdf
Click to expand...

I thought during the free months there was a 30% jump based on the previous month (where there was service). So does this mean the 30% jump stayed and grew a tinny bit ?
 
I decided to actually read the article for once :)

Nope, its a 1% growth from 2011 April ... so that's pretty disappointing yea.
 
Wow, just wow. But that's okay, York Region will have a great network of fancy disconnected busways!

Yeah, moving from the MBTA (operating buses, trolley buses, dual mode buses on BRT, streetcars, subways, commuter trains and ferries) to York Region (buses operated solely by contractors) seems like such a step down, doesn't it?

Next door, Brampton has been pairing modest fare increases with more service, new artic buses and consistently higher ridership (and avoided a strike around the same time most of YRT went down). Not sure how BT's operating subsidy has changed lately though.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to post here.

Back
Top