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York Region Transit: Viva service thread

a0th said:
I don't know much about the actual service but the livery, design of stops and overall branding of the YRT and Viva services really put TTC to shame.
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I think that's really part of the secret to get more people to stop thinking of transit as the poor person's mode of transportation. A lot of people view the TTC as a last resort method of getting around town only designed for people who can't afford a car.

I find the Viva has been branded so successfully that many people actually view it as a viable alternative to the car. The Achilles Heel of Viva is that the YRT feeder routes are not very frequent so people still use that as an excuse to use their car. But overall most people in York Region view the Viva in a positive regard.
 
xtremesniper said:
I think that's really part of the secret to get more people to stop thinking of transit as the poor person's mode of transportation. A lot of people view the TTC as a last resort method of getting around town only designed for people who can't afford a car.

I find the Viva has been branded so successfully that many people actually view it as a viable alternative to the car. The Achilles Heel of Viva is that the YRT feeder routes are not very frequent so people still use that as an excuse to use their car. But overall most people in York Region view the Viva in a positive regard.
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The fact that the service frequencies on feeder routes are pitifully bad (especially on evenings/weekends) and keep getting cut repeatedly, plus the bus strike, means that no one seriously believes that YRT is a useful alternative to driving. Maybe once the bus lanes on Highway 7 fully open (thus allowing buses to bypass the notorious traffic congestion in Markham near the 7/404 interchange) ridership will go up but until YRT starts running decent frequencies on the main feeder bus routes and stops cutting service most people will drive to work. Mississauga and Brampton are much, much better bus systems than YRT.
 
Also my experience is that rich people are much more likely to view the TTC as a viable method of transportation than the YRT. Transit ridership among high income people ends north of Steeles with the possible exception of the Yonge St VIVA Blue bus, but definitely you rarely see high income office workers use the Highway 7 VIVA Purple bus. People do not care about whether the buses look pretty, they care if they are a viable method of transportation. Although it is certainly true that TTC buses in low income neighbourhoods are mostly used by the poor, in high income neighbourhoods lots of high income people will use the bus to get to the subway even if they own cars.
 
a0th said:
I don't know much about the actual service but the livery, design of stops and overall branding of the YRT and Viva services really put TTC to shame.
Click to expand...

What do you expect when you are paying $2.0mil per stop and $950k for a 60-foot bus that isn't a hybrid?

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
I live next to the Purple line, but it's much easier for me to head downtown using the GO Train then taking the Purple to transfer to the Blue to transfer to the subway. I do ride it from time to time though. I've tried the Green line, but I still have to transfer to that at McCowan (I live in the old part of Markham that only has Purple service) and the hours are limited.

I think once the university extension line opens at Highway 7, the Purple line will act a lot like the Blue line in that many people in Vaughan will use it to connect to the subway with only one transfer. The rapidways should also help get people out of their cars.
 
andrewpmk said:
Mississauga and Brampton are much, much better bus systems than YRT.
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If only by necessity. There are far more people living in those cities that need or rely on transit than there are in York Region.

andrewpmk said:
Also my experience is that rich people are much more likely to view the TTC as a viable method of transportation than the YRT. Transit ridership among high income people ends north of Steeles with the possible exception of the Yonge St VIVA Blue bus, but definitely you rarely see high income office workers use the Highway 7 VIVA Purple bus. People do not care about whether the buses look pretty, they care if they are a viable method of transportation. Although it is certainly true that TTC buses in low income neighbourhoods are mostly used by the poor, in high income neighbourhoods lots of high income people will use the bus to get to the subway even if they own cars.
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But that's primarily to do with density and the urban lifestyle. If you're living in a city centre (even if it's North York Centre), you're more likely to use transit simply because it's so accessible and it's most likely a subway.

I'd say that most people view TTC buses as the poor person's mode of transportation, while viewing TTC subways as a viable alternative to the car. So when you go north of Steeles, we're dealing almost exclusively with buses so that's why YRT is trying to differentiate between YRT and Viva. It creates a similar notion to people that the Viva is good for business people, similar to how the subways are for the TTC.

Anyway, the reason why you don't see many business types on the Purple is because a lot of the business core along Highway 7 is near the intersections of Leslie and Warden. Most people opt to drive up the 404 to get to the Beaver Creek Business Park area because they are mostly coming from the south.

If the YRT/TTC deal to extend Transit City's Don Mills line to Highway 7 actually had gone through, you would have seen ridership skyrocket. It would have landed straight into multiple business parks from a major subway station without the need to come east all the way from Yonge.
 
xtremesniper said:
But that's primarily to do with density and the urban lifestyle. If you're living in a city centre (even if it's North York Centre), you're more likely to use transit simply because it's so accessible and it's most likely a subway.
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The change in density along many parts of Steeles is not that great. Service frequency plus the double fare however...
 
I think the free service was a good idea. Hopefully much of this ridership gain can be maintained.

Record YRT ridership in March

• Total ridership (including transfers) was up more than 53 per cent in Markham and Stouffville and nearly 55 per cent in Vaughan and King.
• Overall Viva ridership was up 32.4 per cent.
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http://www.yorkregion.com/news/article/1346109--record-yrt-ridership-in-march

Full stats:

http://www.york.ca/NR/rdonlyres/ock...jwtow4gq2mi4fxdcrubfvhpze/may+2+ridership.pdf
 
Dandy Horse said:
not sure if anyone metioned this before, but whats up with the new American made viva buses? the European ones are so much nicer to ride in.
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Van Hool couldn't bid on the contract for the new buses due to Canadian content regulations built into the provincial funding. It sounds like people mostly like the Novas too and they seem to look close enough when you see them on the road.
 
TJ O'Pootertoot said:
Van Hool couldn't bid on the contract for the new buses due to Canadian content regulations built into the provincial funding. It sounds like people mostly like the Novas too and they seem to look close enough when you see them on the road.
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The Canadian Content was a major issue, but it was more due to the cost and time to bring in parts from oversea that was the real killer.

The Van Hool Artic's beats any artic built in NA and the best to ride on hands down from my point of view since I have ridden every type, including the new Nova.

Nova looks great of all of the NA buses, but rank #3 over all at this point.

Van Hool supplied buses to AC that don't comply with the US buy policy. They have now enter into agreement with Eldorado to have buses installed and bought in the US now. They also don't like orders over 100 by one buyer unless things have change as it takes away orders from other buyers.
 
drum118 said:
The Canadian Content was a major issue, but it was more due to the cost and time to bring in parts from oversea that was the real killer.

The Van Hool Artic's beats any artic built in NA and the best to ride on hands down from my point of view since I have ridden every type, including the new Nova.

Nova looks great of all of the NA buses, but rank #3 over all at this point.
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Ride is a very subjective thing - I think that the Van Hools ride spectacularly bad (particularly the back half of the artics), and I'm far from the only one who thinks this. Because of their short wheelbase, they porpoise quite a lot, and yet they have never figured out (or bothered to figure out) a way to modify the suspension to rectify this.

York Region was willing pay for the entirety of the funding for the contract if Van Hool was willing to come down in price, but in the end it came down to NFI and Nova, with Nova getting the nod. YRT was also quite leery of Van Hool for the reasons you mention - having buses out of service for 4 and 5 months waiting for windshields is frankly unacceptable.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
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