York Region Transit: Viva service thread

[xtremesniper]

Yeah, 10.5% over four years is actually kind of low, especially when you consider these are the lowest-paid transit workers in the GTA by far... they are making like $16 an hour right now, which is pathetic.

On the other hand, is it really appropriate for bus drivers (like those in the TTC) to be making close to $30/hr? Personally, I don't think so. Especially with all the additional benefits they get on top of that and the fact that it's public money.

 

[accura407]

On the other hand, is it really appropriate for bus drivers (like those in the TTC) to be making close to $30/hr? Personally, I don't think so. Especially with all the additional benefits they get on top of that and the fact that it's public money.

+1

 

[rbt]

On the other hand, is it really appropriate for bus drivers (like those in the TTC) to be making close to $30/hr? Personally, I don't think so. Especially with all the additional benefits they get on top of that and the fact that it's public money.

It's expensive to get drivers with a clean record. After spending $700,000 on the bus, do you really want someone who isn't competent to be in charge of it?

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

All the YRT Presto info is being reviewed by their transportation committee this week. It's all in reports #9 and 10 here.

Hilights include:
-YRT staff, with support from contracted staff, will be setting up temporary booths at terminals, shopping malls, and community centres on pre-advertised dates and times to allow customers to obtain a PRESTO card.

-PRESTO cards will be sold through the existing network of YRT/Viva ticket agents who are strategically spread throughout the Region.

-For up to three months, a team of contracted staff will be located at Viva stations and YRT/Viva terminals to educate customers about the new PRESTO fare card system.

-During the launch, there will be incentives such as waiving the initial $6.00 card fee for the first 5,000 York Region customers.


They also made some minor changes to their fare categories, such as that an adult is now 20, instead of 19.

 

[reaperexpress]

They also made some minor changes to their fare categories, such as that an adult is now 20, instead of 19.

Not really. You still have to be attending a secondary school in York Region to qualify for student tickets. The only people who are affected by this change are people who are 20 years old yet are still in high school.

As well, they reduced the maximum age for child tickets from 13 to 12.

 

[nfitz]

On the other hand, is it really appropriate for bus drivers (like those in the TTC) to be making close to $30/hr? Personally, I don't think so. Especially with all the additional benefits they get on top of that and the fact that it's public money.

And yet they've had problems with high turnover ...

 

[doady]

If TTC, MT, BRT, etc. didn't have so much trouble hiring enough capable drivers, maybe the wage can be lowered. But considering the shortage of qualified drivers, lower wage doesn't make sense. But Toronto and Mississauga and Brampton probably aren't actually spending more money, because they are paying drivers directly, while YRT pays Veolia who in turn pays the drivers. I think it make more sense to pay the drivers directly higher wage, instead of spending similar amount of money to some private company who employs local people at a lower wage. After all, YRT's operating cost recovery ratio is quite low compared TTC, MT, and BT.

 

[lead82]

Now this is going to sound controversial, but why don't we outsource the drivers? We have done this for other industries like farming and manufacturing. If TTC/YRT has to pay ridiculous wages like $30/hr to drive a bus (are you kidding me? Why are we paying $60K for bus drivers. This is an unskilled job and requires no education whatsoever) . We could bring in temporary workers from abroad to drive our buses. I'm sure they couldn't do a worse job than the horrible customer service that are provided by transit drivers in this city. We could get them to work for $10-$12/hr and think of all the fares we could save. The transit services would actually be able to make a profit and reduce fares. Big win for the city, and transit riders. Now that's some gravy for Rob to find. Go get em Robbie!

 

[nfitz]

... the horrible customer service that are provided by transit drivers in this city.

Most drivers don't don't provide horrible customer service. Why are you making such untruthul statements?

And bus drivers are unskilled labour? Your comparing it to a teenage flipping burgers? That's shocking ignorant.

And are really suggesting that there should be any TTC drivers working less than minimum wage?

Sir, you are trolling.

 

[accura407]

While your "dubai" model of operation is attractive at the surface, I highly highly doubt that would fly anywhere in Canada!

I agree $30/hour is just insane, something like $16-18/hour is I think a respectable wage that is above minimum wage, but isn't something way out of the spectrum of wages!

But paying 10-12 dollars/hour is not gonna happen...the public will not want bus drivers earning the same as a high school kid giving out coffee at tim hortons!

But the outsourcing idea is on the right track though...

 

[rbt]

Now this is going to sound controversial, but why don't we outsource the drivers? We have done this for other industries like farming and manufacturing. If TTC/YRT has to pay ridiculous wages like $30/hr to drive a bus (are you kidding me? Why are we paying $60K for bus drivers. This is an unskilled job and requires no education whatsoever) . We could bring in temporary workers from abroad to drive our buses. I'm sure they couldn't do a worse job than the horrible customer service that are provided by transit drivers in this city. We could get them to work for $10-$12/hr and think of all the fares we could save. The transit services would actually be able to make a profit and reduce fares. Big win for the city, and transit riders. Now that's some gravy for Rob to find. Go get em Robbie!

I don't think you've factored in insurance.

Insurance on a $750,000 vehicle plus several million in liability for each driver (a single severe bus accident can have dozens of multi-million dollar claims against the TTC) has an impact.

That $10/hour recent immigrant with no Canadian driving record might add $10,000 per month to the insurance bill. It would be an interesting exercise to see the actual TTC insurance package whether oursourced or performed in-house.

 

[xtremesniper]

If TTC, MT, BRT, etc. didn't have so much trouble hiring enough capable drivers, maybe the wage can be lowered. But considering the shortage of qualified drivers, lower wage doesn't make sense. But Toronto and Mississauga and Brampton probably aren't actually spending more money, because they are paying drivers directly, while YRT pays Veolia who in turn pays the drivers. I think it make more sense to pay the drivers directly higher wage, instead of spending similar amount of money to some private company who employs local people at a lower wage. After all, YRT's operating cost recovery ratio is quite low compared TTC, MT, and BT.

Honestly, I had no idea that it was so difficult for them to find drivers. At that kind of pay rate, I'd imagine there would be a waiting list.

Obviously they need to pass training and all that, but I have a hard time believing that there's actually a shortage of competent drivers that they can hire. Honestly, I could be making more money driving a bus at this point than going to school and finding an office job. How ludicrous is that?

I understand that if they crash a bus it's going to cost a lot, but then again it's usually someone driving into a bus or people not giving the bus right of way that causes most accidents. Exception to the TTC which has found a new way of killing off their citizen population through running them over.

 

[leopetr]

Now this is going to sound controversial, but why don't we outsource the drivers?

YRT does outsource drivers.

This is an unskilled job and requires no education whatsoever

Driving a multi-ton vehicle in stop-and-go traffic is not an unskilled job. It should pay more than highway trucking as a baseline.

It also has terrible hours because a rush hour is not 8 hours long. My understanding is that many drivers need to work the morning rush, kill unpaid time at midday, and then work the evening rush. The unpaid midday break sounds pretty useless to me. It's too short for sleep, etc. You need to pay extra to compensate people for the schedule being awful.

We could bring in temporary workers from abroad to drive our buses.

As an immigrant myself, I'm all for immigration to Canada being made easier, but that's the purview of the federal government, not the city.

I'm sure they couldn't do a worse job than the horrible customer service that are provided by transit drivers in this city.

There are several relevant sayings:
- You get what you pay for.
- There's no such thing as a free lunch.
- "Beatings will continue until morale improves."
- Etc.

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

Honestly, I had no idea that it was so difficult for them to find drivers. At that kind of pay rate, I'd imagine there would be a waiting list.

Obviously they need to pass training and all that, but I have a hard time believing that there's actually a shortage of competent drivers that they can hire. Honestly, I could be making more money driving a bus at this point than going to school and finding an office job. How ludicrous is that?

I understand that if they crash a bus it's going to cost a lot, but then again it's usually someone driving into a bus or people not giving the bus right of way that causes most accidents. Exception to the TTC which has found a new way of killing off their citizen population through running them over.

I agree. Heck I even applied to be a driver (TTC) and never even heard back from them. If they had no interest in a drive with a clean record than where is this shortage???

I have a theory with public sector unions. They make the pay and benefits for the jobs so attractive that it's almost like management has to barrier or gauntlet to discourage and/or weed out candidates; not because those candidates are unqualified but because for some reason management feels the need to match the selection process to the 'prestige' of the position (in terms of pay/benefits)

I exprienced this first hand a few years back when I applied to be a letter carrier at CP. First selection process was being able to read addresses, do simple math, etc., which is acceptable considering the job duties. However the second selection process was a full on customer service based behaviioural interview spanning from "tell me about a time where you went above and beyond to satisfy a customer", to "how would you resolve 'x' problem", etc. I mean I understand that mail carriers are the face of the company but come on... As long as the mail is delivered in one piece, and on time how much customer service interaction does one really have with their letter carriers?

 

[doady]

Honestly, I had no idea that it was so difficult for them to find drivers. At that kind of pay rate, I'd imagine there would be a waiting list.

Obviously they need to pass training and all that, but I have a hard time believing that there's actually a shortage of competent drivers that they can hire. Honestly, I could be making more money driving a bus at this point than going to school and finding an office job. How ludicrous is that?

You might be willing to drive a bus, but the real question is are you able to drive a bus? And of course being bus driver isn't just about driving a bus either.

Again I don't see what is so ludicrous about driver wages when York Region is actually spending more to provide less transit service than other municipalities like Toronto and Mississauga.

Starting wage
Mississauga Transit: ~$23
York Region Transit (Veolia): ~$16

Revenue service hours (2010)
Mississauga Transit: 1,268,480
York Region Transit: 1,092,250

Gross operating cost (2010)
Mississauga Transit: $121 million
York Region Transit: $150 million

Cost recovery ratio (2010)
Mississauga: 48%
York Region: 37%

Increasing spending and reducing transit service and increasing fares and being more inefficient just so that the workers, who contribute to the local economy, are paid lower wages is just foolish and goes against all logic. I don't see why there is even an argument here... but whatever, let's keep attacking the workers.