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York Region Transit: Viva service thread

The real problem isn't that the government isn't the government overpaying its workers, its that the private sector is underpaying them. After World War II we saw the development of a strong middle class: moderately skilled workers with respectable incomes to afford a home in the suburbs, a car, and start a family. However through decades of outsourcing and capitalistic greed, the middle class is disappearing from the private sector and we are seeing rich management watching over a low income workforce.

The public sector is one of the few areas which is keeping the middle class alive, and even that is under attack. Look at the drama which is happening with TEACHERS (hardly an unskilled field) in Wisconsin right now. Unfortunately this is not too surprising, since you have an increasing lower class paying the wages of a "privileged" middle class through their taxes. I'm not proposing a communist solution where everyone makes the same income, but we need some safeguards to distribute the wealth so that we don't have a manager driving a Bentley while his employees can barely afford bus fare.

If we don't, then this recession is going to get much worse before it gets better...
 
Electrify said:
The real problem isn't that the government isn't the government overpaying its workers, its that the private sector is underpaying them. After World War II we saw the development of a strong middle class: moderately skilled workers with respectable incomes to afford a home in the suburbs, a car, and start a family. However through decades of outsourcing and capitalistic greed, the middle class is disappearing from the private sector and we are seeing rich management watching over a low income workforce.

The public sector is one of the few areas which is keeping the middle class alive, and even that is under attack. Look at the drama which is happening with TEACHERS (hardly an unskilled field) in Wisconsin right now. Unfortunately this is not too surprising, since you have an increasing lower class paying the wages of a "privileged" middle class through their taxes. I'm not proposing a communist solution where everyone makes the same income, but we need some safeguards to distribute the wealth so that we don't have a manager driving a Bentley while his employees can barely afford bus fare.

If we don't, then this recession is going to get much worse before it gets better...
Click to expand...


Yet even during those boom times, a bus/trolley driver, postperson, etc were hardly lofty middle class jobs. They were on the lower end of the scale, not necissarily slum positions but a position that was relativly easily obtainable with some moderate level of skill/intelligence. Yet now through some combination of unionized negotiations, and private sector outsourcing these positions have now moved up the economic ladder. They are now more attractive positions than the teachers, doctors, factory workers, etc that they drive everyday or deliver mail to. Does that make much sense to you? Does a bus drive or mail carrier add more value to our society than a teacher does???

Fact is that positions like this are still service jobs and service jobs are not the foundation of a healthy economy. The foundation of a healthy economy is production and manufacture of goods that are sold within our economy and abroad and those are the positions, as you stated, that have been outsourced. My point simply was that the uninteded consequence of bringing these types of jobs up to a middle to upper middle class level is that management increases it's skills requirements for those positions making it more difficult to gain employment in them, to the point where many of the employees who had initially brought in the union would likely not qualify for the job anymore.
 
Woodbridge_Heights said:
Yet even during those boom times, a bus/trolley driver, postperson, etc were hardly lofty middle class jobs. They were on the lower end of the scale, not necissarily slum positions but a position that was relativly easily obtainable with some moderate level of skill/intelligence. Yet now through some combination of unionized negotiations, and private sector outsourcing these positions have now moved up the economic ladder. They are now more attractive positions than the teachers, doctors, factory workers, etc that they drive everyday or deliver mail to. Does that make much sense to you? Does a bus drive or mail carrier add more value to our society than a teacher does???
Click to expand...

Are people lining up to be bus drivers? Do young people come out high school with aspirations of becoming a bus driver instead of becoming a doctor? Because there is no excess of bus drivers that I'm aware of. If the position was so attractive, there would be way more people trying to get it. Honestly, I don't even know what you are complaining about. If bus driving is really so easy and so great, stop complaining and become a bus driver.

Fact is that positions like this are still service jobs and service jobs are not the foundation of a healthy economy. The foundation of a healthy economy is production and manufacture of goods that are sold within our economy and abroad and those are the positions, as you stated, that have been outsourced.
Click to expand...

Ummm, no. All the most economically-developed countries in the world are all service-based economies. Production and manufacturing contributes relatively little to the economies of developed countries. Even if you production and manufacturing were still important, transit would still be important to the economy. After all, buses and other transit vehicles still require manufacture.
 
doady said:
Are people lining up to be bus drivers? Do young people come out high school with aspirations of becoming a bus driver instead of becoming a doctor? Because there is no excess of bus drivers that I'm aware of. If the position was so attractive, there would be way more people trying to get it. Honestly, I don't even know what you are complaining about. If bus driving is really so easy and so great, stop complaining and become a bus driver.
Click to expand...

I said it earlier. I realize that there is a shortage of bus drivers right now, and I said that I did apply and never got a call back.

My question is this. Is the driver shortage due to lack of skilled people to fill the positions, or excessivly high hiring standards? I find it hard to believe that there aren't enough competent drivers out there to fill the positions.

Finally this is only my personal observations. My experience with the TTC and Canada Post has led me to believe that they have more than enough applicants, but that the hiring standards are not related to the skills required for the job.
 
Viva Orange has been using the York University Busway since May 1st, but Dufferin-Finch doesn't have a VivaNow machine, and I don't think Murray-Ross has one either.

800px-Viva_on_York_U_Busway.JPG

(picture taken by me, this afternoon)
 
I was told by the Viva Orange driver today that those two stations will be getting machines on May 15th.
 
Not sure if this should be in the GO Transit thread, but I think it will have more importance here. From GO's website:

52 – Hwy. 407 East GO Bus
Buses will now serve the Richmond Hill Centre instead of Langstaff GO Station or the stops on Langstaff Road.
The weekday westbound 6:10 a.m. trip from the Oshawa Bus Terminal will now depart at 6:05 and times will be earlier at all stops along the route.
The weekday westbound 7:12 a.m. trip from Durham College will now depart at 7:10 and times will be earlier at all stops along the route.
Click to expand...

This is great news, but it does beg a few questions. First, how will the Ride to GO program work with this? YRT's website seems to imply that the R2G only works for the GO train, but GO's website says it can be used for the 407 bus as well. I know someone who got into disputes with the bus driver over this several years ago, though now he just takes the Viva bus to York. With the GO stopping at RHC, I could see as the opening of a Pandora's Box of problems.

Secondly, could this be the start of GO accompanying local services with their express services? If this works out, could we see GO offering improved connections and fares between Toronto stops and Union?
 
Electrify said:
This is great news, but it does beg a few questions. First, how will the Ride to GO program work with this? YRT's website seems to imply that the R2G only works for the GO train, but GO's website says it can be used for the 407 bus as well. I know someone who got into disputes with the bus driver over this several years ago, though now he just takes the Viva bus to York.
Click to expand...

The route - bus or train - doesn't matter. All that matters is if it at a GO Train station or not. So the 407 bus would only qualify for the discount at stops in a GO Train station, and RHC terminal would probably qualify.
 
YRT plans overhaul
Metroland Publications: York Region
Wed Aug 10 2011
Page: 1
Section: News
Byline: David Fleischer, dfleischer@yrmg.com

York Region Transit is eyeing major changes as part of its 2012 service plan and staff want to hear what you think of their ideas. A series of public meetings take place in the next few weeks, during which you can have your say. The region's transit system is posting record ridership every month and, following a dip during the recession, appears set to exceed 21 million riders in 2011. Despite the success, YRT general manager Rick Leary has told regional councillors they need to take a hard look at transit routes. In June, he presented a route-by-route breakdown of YRT and Viva's routes in terms of to what degree they are subsidized and noted the region has the province's third-biggest fleet, but ranks sixth in terms of ridership. Every transit fare now accounts for about 38 per cent of the cost of boarding a bus. The region aims to achieve a 50/50 split and moving toward that will require some big changes on routes that fall below that mark. Mr. Leary will present the 2012 plan to council in the fall, along with a plan for the next five years.
Click to expand...
 
Looking at the subsidies for each route...It is quite stunning how much some routes are getting subsidized...

My question is...Now that 77 has lost its inter-regional role with the introduction of ZUM, why can't YRT reroute 77 through Woodbridge Ave from Islington to Kipling or Martin Grove?

A) You can automatically eliminate Route 11 (whenever i see it, its always always empty) with 77 running.
B) With the frequent service on Woodbridge Ave, you might actually see someone use it
C) Unlike Route 11, it will have a real destination (Finch Subway Station) and also connects to VIVA/ZUM
D) There is absolutely nothing along Hwy 7 between Islington & Kipling, might as well reroute a frequent conventional service into a corridor that has riders...

When you have 3 Different Styled Buses ramming through Hwy 7 at incredible frequencies (rivals some TTC routes), I do not understand why YRT can't simply reroute 77 to an area that desperately needs good service (Woodbridge Ave is quite dense) and eliminate a ultra-money loser route like 11?

There's many many other suggestions i could make but this one sticks out more than anything else to me (Being from the area)
 
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accura407 said:
Looking at the subsidies for each route...It is quite stunning how much some routes are getting subsidized...

My question is...Now that 77 has lost its inter-regional role with the introduction of ZUM, why can't YRT reroute 77 through Woodbridge Ave from Islington to Kipling or Martin Grove?

A) You can automatically eliminate Route 11 (whenever i see it, its always always empty) with 77 running.
B) With the frequent service on Woodbridge Ave, you might actually see someone use it
C) Unlike Route 11, it will have a real destination (Finch Subway Station) and also connects to VIVA/ZUM
D) There is absolutely nothing along Hwy 7 between Islington & Kipling, might as well reroute a frequent conventional service into a corridor that has riders...

When you have 3 Different Styled Buses ramming through Hwy 7 at incredible frequencies (rivals some TTC routes), I do not understand why YRT can't simply reroute 77 to an area that desperately needs good service (Woodbridge Ave is quite dense) and eliminate a ultra-money loser route like 11?

There's many many other suggestions i could make but this one sticks out more than anything else to me (Being from the area)
Click to expand...

Bang on. I definitely agree with routing the 77 through Woodbridge Ave.
So you're saying, have the 77 turn left at Martin Grove, then right onto Woodbridge Ave, then back down to Highway 7 Via Islington?

Also -- I've always wondered if the YRT would consider nixing the TTC contracts and running their own buses on Pine Valley, Weston, Jane, Keele, Bathurst etc. But then you'd have to deal with transfers.
 
accura407 said:
Looking at the subsidies for each route...It is quite stunning how much some routes are getting subsidized...

My question is...Now that 77 has lost its inter-regional role with the introduction of ZUM, why can't YRT reroute 77 through Woodbridge Ave from Islington to Kipling or Martin Grove?

A) You can automatically eliminate Route 11 (whenever i see it, its always always empty) with 77 running.
B) With the frequent service on Woodbridge Ave, you might actually see someone use it
C) Unlike Route 11, it will have a real destination (Finch Subway Station) and also connects to VIVA/ZUM
D) There is absolutely nothing along Hwy 7 between Islington & Kipling, might as well reroute a frequent conventional service into a corridor that has riders...

When you have 3 Different Styled Buses ramming through Hwy 7 at incredible frequencies (rivals some TTC routes), I do not understand why YRT can't simply reroute 77 to an area that desperately needs good service (Woodbridge Ave is quite dense) and eliminate a ultra-money loser route like 11?

There's many many other suggestions i could make but this one sticks out more than anything else to me (Being from the area)
Click to expand...

Funny enough, this "detour" on 77, may actually allow the bus to by-pass some heavy congestion experienced between islington and kipling at rush-hour.
 
Does this mean large cuts are coming to YRT ?

What's triggered this - generally the transit system it self wouldn't care about the costs i.e. they already get funded did the council want reductions ?
 
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