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York Region Transit: Viva service thread

Your point about VIVA Blue is very valid ... for all their talk about ridership increase ... they removed (during many many time frames) the Newmarket B bus. In the past from what I recall it ran everyday every 30/60min, now it has 3/4 trips in each rush hour only. Also I recall, particularly on weekends the bus was deffinetly bussy. A lot of people continued on to Barrie after that. A lot of their ridership was stolen from that - probably many of those stolen riders aren't very happy either as it's a slower less comfortable trip ... but anyway that's beyond the point.

Regarding VIVA purple, is it in anyway crowed after York University though? Out side of rush hour it really doesn't seem crowed going East from the Richmond Hill terminal. Actually the Viva strike made this really evident to me. Although they did increase the frequency of Yonge North/South and Hi-way 7 to a certain degree the Viva blue route was a complete mess most of the day. But I had absolutely no problems on the Hi-way 7 east bust.
 
Your point about VIVA Blue is very valid ... for all their talk about ridership increase ... they removed (during many many time frames) the Newmarket B bus. In the past from what I recall it ran everyday every 30/60min, now it has 3/4 trips in each rush hour only. Also I recall, particularly on weekends the bus was deffinetly bussy. A lot of people continued on to Barrie after that. A lot of their ridership was stolen from that - probably many of those stolen riders aren't very happy either as it's a slower less comfortable trip ... but anyway that's beyond the point.

Regarding VIVA purple, is it in anyway crowed after York University though? Out side of rush hour it really doesn't seem crowed going East from the Richmond Hill terminal. Actually the Viva strike made this really evident to me. Although they did increase the frequency of Yonge North/South and Hi-way 7 to a certain degree the Viva blue route was a complete mess most of the day. But I had absolutely no problems on the Hi-way 7 east bust.

VIVA Purple currently terminates at York. They used to run peak service west of York, sharing the route with Orange, though that was shelved shortly after introduction. Anyway according to VIVA's metrics and personal observation Orange (VIVA west of York) is just scraping by. They estimated 27 boardings per hr in 2007. The busses though are rarely if ever super packed, I think part of that is due to the fact that there are few feeder routes for Orange in the west end, and those that do often terminate a York anyway killing any potential demand for Orange. Also As I mentioned Brampton 77 is still routing to Finch station, so many Brampton commuters are still taking the long trip there rather than transferring to Orange and heading to a much less crowded Downsview station. If YRT and BT got together and shared the Orange and Accelleride routing then Orange's numbers would probably see an increase, with the added benefit of reduced pressure on Finch.

Judging from your observations for Hwy 7 East. I'd say a similar problem exists there. Not enough feeder routes to create demand in that part of the route. Granted the population (and as such demand) is really centralized along Yonge.
 
If YRT and BT got together and shared the Orange and Accelleride routing then Orange's numbers would probably see an increase, with the added benefit of reduced pressure on Finch.

That is the plan, as I understand it.

Acceleride planners want a one seat ride to at least York University, and since York Region and Brampton already have a history of cooperating it wouldn't be a stretch for Acceleride Queen to replace VIVA Orange completely.

While there might be a terminal built at the Brampton-Vaughan border, Brampton planners do not want people to have to transfer to continue a highway 7 trip.

I believe Shontron can shed a bit more light on this though.
 
Regarding VIVA purple, is it in anyway crowed after York University though? Out side of rush hour it really doesn't seem crowed going East from the Richmond Hill terminal. Actually the Viva strike made this really evident to me. Although they did increase the frequency of Yonge North/South and Hi-way 7 to a certain degree the Viva blue route was a complete mess most of the day. But I had absolutely no problems on the Hi-way 7 east bust.

As mentioned by Woodbridge_Heights, the Purple used to extend to Martin Grove but that service was cancelled and now all Purple routes end at York U.

Outside of rush hour, you'll see a steady flow of people trying to get to and from York, however where you will see short range travel (not station to terminating point, but rather station to station) between Bayview and Montgomery. That's partially because of the higher density of stations along a strip of constant plazas, businesses, grocery stores, and even a movie theatre.

Sometimes people see empty buses and get a false impression of ridership. There are times (especially notable in bad weather like rain) where the Viva buses bunch up two by two and so the first bus will be packed, and the second will be virtually empty (but they won't stop over anywhere to increase a gap between the buses for whatever reason).
 
They must be taking lessons from the TTC ;-) ... at least YRT is doing one thing right lol
 
Acceleride planners want a one seat ride to at least York University, and since York Region and Brampton already have a history of cooperating it wouldn't be a stretch for Acceleride Queen to replace VIVA Orange completely.

While there might be a terminal built at the Brampton-Vaughan border, Brampton planners do not want people to have to transfer to continue a highway 7 trip.

I believe Shontron can shed a bit more light on this though.

That's what BT planners are consistently saying over the past two years, even wanting a single seat "BRT" ride to MCC as well. They've been pushing the envelope in having routes extend past their boundaries. The 101 this year and the 77A (I guess that'll be okay) really boldly pushing it. I'm sure the 77A means that BT is serious about the one-seat ride to York (at the least, if not Downsview) and they definitely intend to connect to the Sorbara Subway, and I am sure that was part of the idea of the 77A. They've also been stepping into GO's turf lately with those new routes.

Taking partial or complete control of VIVA Orange is one option they are looking at closely, as they don't believe in dumping people at the edge of town if they can help it. It largely depends on York, but the 77A gives them that precedent, just as they weren't sure if they could get away with the 11 extension to Humber College, they started rush hours only at first and then went all out.
 
Region plans to spend $10B on public transit projects by 2031

Regional News
November 15, 2008 09:15 PM


By: David Fleischer
The car may always be king, but York Region’s new transportation master plan aims to make sure if you’re getting behind the wheel, it’s because there is no better way to get where you’re going.

By 2031, the region plans to spend nearly $10 billion on projects aimed at ensuring we are able to handle a population of 1.5 million and 800,000 jobs without creating new traffic woes.

Over the next few weeks, a series of public meetings give you a chance to look at the far-reaching plan and see what they got right, and what they missed.

“We’re trying to provide more choice and more sustainable choices for the travelling public in York Region,†infrastructure planning manager Paul May said.

The plan has a “transit first†philosophy with rapid transit expansions and road improvements designed to encourage transit.

It is an approach that strikes the right note for John Stillich, director of the Sustainable Urban Development Association.

Representatives from the non-profit group addressed council earlier this year, praising their efforts to date, and pointing out where more can be done.

If roads are going to be expanded with bike and carpool lanes, that’s OK, but a dedication to supporting transit is key, Mr. Stillich said.

Crucial to making a plan such as York Region’s work is ensuring transit is leading, not following development.

The 905 regions need to realize transit is a better long-term investment than roads, he said. Rapid transit, such as light rail and dedicated busways, forms the backbone of the region’s plan.

Overall, it dovetails nicely with Metrolinx’s recently unveiled plan for creating a rapid transit network over the next 25 years, Mr. May said.

However, he would like to see the transportation authority tackling improved goods movement which, in York Region, means prioritizing the Bradford Bypass.

Mr. May also said while Metrolinx sees a long-term need for rapid transit along Major Mackenzie Drive, the region would prefer that happens within the 25-year time frame.

In the meantime, talks are underway with the TTC about extending LRTs along Don Mills Road and Jane Street past their planned termini at Steeles Avenue.

“It’s a huge amount of work to implement all these rapid transit lines. It’s a challenge that I and others welcome,†Mr. May said.

In all, the region estimates it will need $7.1 billion for its planned transit network as well as a further $2.3 billion for road projects.

Road widening, particularly for HOV and transit lanes are also considered keys to reducing congestion across the region.

The plan also deals with everything from carpooling to cycling and walking.

“They’re perfectly right to focus on transit and bike lanes, but will it be enough?†Mr. Stillich asked.

“After all is said and done, are there going to be more vehicle kilometres and greenhouse gas emissions, or less?â€

All the maps in the world can’t make you trade your car keys for a transit pass, but Mr. May believes good planning can go a long way to making the plans become a new reality.

“The key is giving people good choices that fit in with people’s lifestyles,†he said.

He emphasized this is still a draft plan and, even with the public consultations to date, your input at this round of meetings can still influence the outcome.

* Nov. 18 Vaughan Civic Centre, 2141 Major Mackenzie Dr.;
* Nov. 20 Markham town hall, 101 Town Centre Blvd. Town of Markham;
* Nov. 25 Newmarket municipal office, 395 Mulock Drive and;
* Nov. 27 York Region South Services Centre (Rooms A,B,C), 50 High Tech Rd., Richmond Hill.

Key features to expansion

Here are some of the projects the region plans in its transit strategy:

* Expanding roads in the next two years, but only when no alternative exists, and only for HOV or transit lanes.
* Creating an integrated fare system and a parking authority within the next three to five years.
* Developing “mobility hubs†at major points in the next decade, and facilitating effective freight movement.
* Installing rapid transit along the Steeles Avenue corridor and extending the planned Don Mills LRT to Beaver Creek and the Jane LRT to Major Mackenzie Drive.

http://www.theliberal.com/News/Regional News/article/84519
 
points in the next decade, and facilitating effective freight movement.
* Installing rapid transit along the Steeles Avenue corridor and extending the planned Don Mills LRT to Beaver Creek and the Jane LRT to Major Mackenzie Drive.

http://www.theliberal.com/News/Regional News/article/84519

Why does it seem that YRT is continually piggy backing onto TTC proposal AFTER the TTC raises them? The York U subway gets piggy backed to go to VCC. Now the Don Mills and Jane LRTs should be going to Beaver Creek and Major Mack?

I don't get it. LRT/BRT wasn't even considered when YRT decided that a subway was required, despite projected ridership numbers wouldn't even support a subway. Now they want the subway AND the LRT! This is nuts
 
Why does it seem that YRT is continually piggy backing onto TTC proposal AFTER the TTC raises them? The York U subway gets piggy backed to go to VCC. Now the Don Mills and Jane LRTs should be going to Beaver Creek and Major Mack?

I don't get it. LRT/BRT wasn't even considered when YRT decided that a subway was required, despite projected ridership numbers wouldn't even support a subway. Now they want the subway AND the LRT! This is nuts

I agree, the main thing that I don't like about the spadina extension is that there was never any consideration of other transit options for the area, nor was there ever any reasonable justification given for the massive expense of the line. They just started planning a subway line.

For the same amount of money that is being spent on this line, both in capital and operating costs, they could directly serve a much wider area using other methods.
 
There is really nothing new here whatsoever ... moreover most of it is not within York regions hands ... expect expanding roads "when necessary only" of course ... what a surprise.

The Steeles LRT will be in the works but it has very low priority compared to a lot of other projects, extending the JANE / Don Mills LRT ... sure, we're going to build it up to Steeles we might as well right?

The ridership North of Steeles on both these routes is so insignificant that it's clearly not even remotely advantageous to do this. But anyway that's fine ... it can't hurt of course.

Integrated fair system? Well that's nice that's been in the works for a while now and is out of their hands.
 
I agree, the main thing that I don't like about the spadina extension is that there was never any consideration of other transit options for the area, nor was there ever any reasonable justification given for the massive expense of the line. They just started planning a subway line.

For the same amount of money that is being spent on this line, both in capital and operating costs, they could directly serve a much wider area using other methods.

Why not ... it seems to be working for them doesn't it : - )
 
Here are some of the projects the region plans in its transit strategy:

* ...extending the planned Don Mills LRT to Beaver Creek and the Jane LRT to Major Mackenzie Drive.

So you'll soon be able to take the subway up to Vaughan Corporate Centre, then continue north on Jane Street on a CLRV. Vaughan should change its slogan to "The City That Stole Toronto".
 
Why does it seem that YRT is continually piggy backing onto TTC proposal AFTER the TTC raises them? The York U subway gets piggy backed to go to VCC. Now the Don Mills and Jane LRTs should be going to Beaver Creek and Major Mack?

I don't get it. LRT/BRT wasn't even considered when YRT decided that a subway was required, despite projected ridership numbers wouldn't even support a subway. Now they want the subway AND the LRT! This is nuts

This is a matter of perspective. If YRT had proposed an LRT from Steeles to Hwy 7 on Leslie, they would have been mocked. What's absurd is that TTC would propose their line and just end it at Steeles rather than saying, "You guys wanna get in on this?"

The idea that they are "piggybacking" really shows the sort of attitude Metrolinx is trying to eliminate - if you want a REGIONAL system you shouldn't be designing your own little piece to serve your own taxpayers with no regard for what's on the other side of (in this case) Steeles. Extending the Don Mills LRT is basically a no-brainer.

And Taal, you're way off, I think. There's already a huge re-development proposal for the mall at Steeles (3,000 residents, give or take) and the point isn't the residential density north of there -it's the huge employment sector at Beaver Creek. If you've driven there at rush hour, you can only dream what difference rapid transit could make.

As for the subway, that's also a bit backwards. The plans for Viva were to make Phase II BRT with the hope of one day converting to LRT or subway. When the subway plan came out, they naturally jumped at it - it's precisely why citizens got upset saying, "don't dig up yonge st for bus lanes is a subway is likely to go in soon anyway." On the Spadina side, it's York Region's involvement that made the York U extension viable, not the other way around.
 
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