York Region Transit: Viva service thread

[scarberiankhatru]

Fewer people will walk to Steeles or get dropped off at Steeles...they'll be able to take N/S buses that cross Steeles. Many will then find it quicker to get to the subway network or wherever else without going through Finch station. When TTC routes seamlessly cross Steeles, and when the subway goes north of Finch, Steeles will cease to be the closest intervening transit opportunity requiring only one fare and ridership will go down.

 

[taal]

Ah yes ... when the Steeles subway stations opens I agree ridership might drop.

Either way I don't think ridership will drop that much for the following reason ... unless EAST - WEST YRT routes improve people will still use Steeles as the best EAST - WEST choice. Now if you can get across EAST / WEST to Yonge and now can go down to Steeles subway station.

Either way ... miner difference in ridership and I still think it will increase because of the much better connections available if say the Jane, Dufferin ... other LRT routes begin operating.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

Ah yes ... when the Steeles subway stations opens I agree ridership might drop.

Either way I don't think ridership will drop that much for the following reason ... unless EAST - WEST YRT routes improve people will still use Steeles as the best EAST - WEST choice. Now if you can get across EAST / WEST to Yonge and now can go down to Steeles subway station.

Either way ... miner difference in ridership and I still think it will increase because of the much better connections available if say the Jane, Dufferin ... other LRT routes begin operating.

Yes, York Regioners' ridership on Steeles will drop. It's the double fare that most prevents people from taking other YRT routes or from taking N/S routes across Steeles (or from such routes being implemented at all). There's quite a few people going out of their way to take Steeles buses now but they simply wouldn't continue to do so if the fare boundary/structure is altered.

 

[Disparishun]

Again, sorry why would ridership drop on Steeles?

Currently someone who wants to go North on say Bayview or anywhere would instead do what? Why would removing the double fare change anything

Before they were bypassing their local double-fare bus to get a ride south to Steeles, picking up the TTC Steeles bus that goes across and down Yonge to the subway. Now they'll take a no-double-fare Bayview bus that goes south to Steeles, across Steeles and down Yonge to the subway. See?

 

[Chuck]

Either way I don't think ridership will drop that much for the following reason ... unless EAST - WEST YRT routes improve people will still use Steeles as the best EAST - WEST choice. Now if you can get across EAST / WEST to Yonge and now can go down to Steeles subway station.

You're missing the point. Except for the relatively few people who actually live along Steeles, most people from York Region only use that route as a means to get to the subway without paying two bus fares. If the double fare ceased to exist, people would be able to start boarding YRT at their local stop north of Steeles, take YRT to the subway instead, and avoid TTC Steeles buses altogether.

 

[taal]

I see your point but only if and when (I guess it's only a matter of when) the subway is extended north.

If the subway isn't extended north and stays at finch what YRT routes can they make use of to get to finch instead of steeles?

Now forgetting the extension for a second they'd be able to make use of VIVA more that much I contest. But let me be clear ... that's only if they can get to VIVA, and unfortunately other then H-Way 7 there aren't any east - west YRT alternatives for them to make use of other then steeles.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

Maybe a fourth person should explain it...three have tried and failed.

 

[taal]

My point is simple ... If you destination is somewhere other then a current subway station you'd currently make use of a north/south TTC route that enters york region. Some may avoid this now but even after the double fair is removed this does not impact the Steeles route.

So the point is your argument is that people get drives to steele to make their way to the subway station, this much I buy to a certain degree but a lot of those people probably get rides to Finch station it self or Richmond Hill station. So yes there is a small group of riders that will stop using it.

Now the other argument ... someone trying to get to a subway station. There are no good EAST/WEST routes south of Hi-way 7 so unless YRT is improved in that area people will still get drives to Steeles. People as far north as hi-way 7 likely just use Viva Purple right now but I agree some of them might get drives down to Steeles. So after the double fair gets removed Hi-way 7 will get an increase in ridership and Steeles will go down. But the point it is I think it'll be minimal.

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

One presumes the subway will lead to the bolstering of e-w YRT routes designed to hook up with the train at Centre, Royal Orchard etc.

We're still years away so it's hard to imagine how the local routes will shift but I'm sure the planners are at least as aware of the issues as we are.

 

[taal]

Yea they'll need to increase the east west bus route service and then maybe Steeles ridership will go down : - ) I concede.

BUT, I still think it'll be a minor drop!

 

[BMO]

umm sorry this might be a bit off topic, but like i've noticed it for like a really longtime, but why don't the VIVA bus tv's work anymore?

 

[taal]

Or the internet ... bunch of liars!

 

[Chuck]

If the subway isn't extended north and stays at finch what YRT routes can they make use of to get to finch instead of steeles?

Why are you being so difficult? The following arterial roads in York Region have YRT buses that can currently take you directly to the subway:

Weston Road
Jane
Keele
Dufferin
Bathurst
Yonge
Bayview
Leslie/Don Mills
Warden
McCowan
Markham Rd.
Highway 7 East
Highway 7 West
Clark
Royal Orchard
John St.

By my estimate, these streets are within 1 km of approximately 100% of Markham, Vaughan, and Richmond Hill. In other words, approximately 100% of the population of Markham, Vaughan, and Richmond Hill (less the few who actually live on Steeles) can get to the subway without using a Steeles bus. Therefore, approximately 100% of the people who get a ride to Steeles to save money would no longer have to do so if the double fare was removed. Do you understand yet?

I don't know how much ridership on Steeles would drop because I don't know how many people currently get dropped off at Steeles. But what I do know for certain is that YRT has an excellent network of bus routes that can take you to the subway, but they are largely unused due to cost. Which bus routes take the slack? TTC buses on Steeles.

Note: The 100% figure is based on a small percentage of people having to transfer from a local to an arterial YRT route.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

And it's not just people getting a ride to Steeles...all kinds of people will walk down to Steeles from the Clark/Denison area.

 

[taal]

The problem with those routes is that service just isn't their even if the double fair was eliminated. Moreover I'd stress that the demand which drives the service will probably never be there on all those routes. It's possible that one or two may develop that may provide reasonable service but the majority will not. Even if you remove all these so called "driven to steeles" passengers I'd argue Steeles will still be a very very busy route. Many people in Toronto take this route and I doubt a lot of the usage stems from folks in York region. Moreover I take Viva blue very often, there are quite a lot of people who get off at Yonge and Steeles and pay the *double* fare just to make use of the steeles bus ... because the service isn't there North of Steeles and South of Hi-way 7 (The service which doesn't currently already make it way to Finch) and I don't think it really ever will be. South of Hi-way 7 that is. I'm arguing that the amount of ridership on Steeles due to people avoiding the double fair is very small. Moreover a lot of ridership from York region is taking the Steeles bus to get to destinations other then Finch station ... and they're paying the double fair now.


Anyway, I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens ... get back to you in 5 - 20 years ... : - ) I have no optimism on any of the current time lines in place but we'll see.