freshcutgrass
Senior Member
It's not hard to figure out...wasn't it around 1993 when music fell off a cliff?
I am so lucky to have spent my teens & 20's in the 70's & 80's. If you weren't there...then you weren't there...too bad.
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It's not hard to figure out...wasn't it around 1993 when music fell off a cliff?
I am so lucky to have spent my teens & 20's in the 70's & 80's. If you weren't there...then you weren't there...too bad.
Celeste
New Member
There's a reason why I wasn't there myself. It's a little thing called being underage. I was 16 when the place shut down. A little too young to be hanging out at a bar and risk being found out by people who know me.
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Wrenkin
Active Member
Festive? It's a row of nightclubs where last call is 3am. Most sane people would avoid the area if not actively drinking, given all the fights. I suppose the police cars' flashing lights did provide a certain atmosphere.
vking
New Member
Some of the best times of my young adult life was spent at the gas works. Great memories ,great Canadian bands! I forget the name of the bar that was on top of the works...If I remember correctly it kept flipping back and forth from a gay bar to a straight bar.
Celeste
New Member
What do you mean it kept flipping back from gay to straight?
ssiguy2
Senior Member
Maybe it was bisexual?
I totally agree with freshcutgrass, the 70s & 80s were the best of times. The music since 1990 has sucked big time and will never be great again. Yonge in the 70s & 80s was a fun spot and Sam the Record Man and A&A were at the very heart of it all. Those were truly Yonge Street's prime.
I totally agree with freshcutgrass, the 70s & 80s were the best of times. The music since 1990 has sucked big time and will never be great again. Yonge in the 70s & 80s was a fun spot and Sam the Record Man and A&A were at the very heart of it all. Those were truly Yonge Street's prime.
Lenser
Senior Member
What a load of malarkey. It's such a safe out - claim that the music you listened to as a young'un was the bomb and that nothing good has happened since. Totally cyclical, self-serving, grumpy older generation codswallop. Just as truly great music is timeless, great music is happening all the time. Expand your sources - there's amazing stuff out there. Scrape the wax out of your ears and give your head a shake! Gaaadzooks.
As for Yonge St, we'll see. It may be its best days are ahead.
As for Yonge St, we'll see. It may be its best days are ahead.
Celeste
New Member
Agreed! Being a teenager in the 1990s it felt like I was born in the wrong decade. Because I didn't get to experience the same things that my cousins got to experience.
MisterF
Senior Member
Haha yeah the "music has sucked since such and such a date" people are funny. That period that ssiguy laments is exactly the period I get nostalgic about. So much great music was being made then and still holds up today. But that doesn't mean that I don't still discover new bands or listen to new music. There's a lot of great stuff out there now, just like there was then.
freshcutgrass
Senior Member
Well, nobody said there isn't good music being made nowadays. There is...it just isn't "popular" music listened to by the youth of today.
You wish it was just a case of that (and so do I actually), but I'm afraid empirical evidence is on my side.
The sheer depth, diversity, quality and quantity of talent that released music in 1977 alone crushes everything collectively done in the entire 21st century to date (wasn't a bad film year either). Just the number of genres of music that was popular then is mind-boggling.
I can provide a list that will conclusively point this out if you like? (it's a VERY long list he he)
junctionist
Senior Member
Arcade Fire could top anything made in 1977. Also, hip hop is thriving today with exceptional creativity when it was just an underground genre back them.
Lenser
Senior Member
Freshcutgrass: I'm a relic of the 60s and 70s and have a pretty good idea of what was going on back in the day, so any arguments about the breadth and depth of the offerings of that time period won't be countered by myself.
Alas, your grand offer to give empirical evidence would be wasted on me... taste in music is entirely subjective. And though you can try and tell a 21 year old that the music he or she passionately gets off on right now sucks just because you heard so-and-so back in the 70s, such a declaration, however bold, will likely come off as laughably ignorant and ossified.
Finally, don't blame popular music on today's youth. Most contemporary radio and TV fare is clinically programmed by corporate interests... the Clearchannels and their ilk of this world, with their vested interests and penchant for comprehensive consolidation and integration of media, are simply not interested in any pleas for quality or variety in contemporary pop music; it's about pushing product. That's always been the case, it's just that in recent decades it's become more streamlined and efficient. Again, don't look at the conventional sources. That's merely the tip of a colossal, decentralized iceberg. You'd be much better off wading through Soundcloud, Bandcamp, college radio sites... there's just as much variety and awesome stuff as ever. You may not be familiar with any of it, but that's entirely beside the point. This pining for the 70s is just sad.
Back to Yonge St. It's always been on a certain trajectory and change has been a part of that. I don't despair for its future and I certainly don't lament its past. No sense in looking fondly backwards through rose-coloured glasses. My recollection of it in the 70s and 80s was that it was tacky and dumpy. Yeah, I paid regular homage at Sam The Record Man but the rest of it did not move me. But that doesn't preclude the fact that others, like yourself, saw it as a vital place with plenty of offer. I expect much the same range of reactions to Yonge St. will continue, well into the future.
Alas, your grand offer to give empirical evidence would be wasted on me... taste in music is entirely subjective. And though you can try and tell a 21 year old that the music he or she passionately gets off on right now sucks just because you heard so-and-so back in the 70s, such a declaration, however bold, will likely come off as laughably ignorant and ossified.
Finally, don't blame popular music on today's youth. Most contemporary radio and TV fare is clinically programmed by corporate interests... the Clearchannels and their ilk of this world, with their vested interests and penchant for comprehensive consolidation and integration of media, are simply not interested in any pleas for quality or variety in contemporary pop music; it's about pushing product. That's always been the case, it's just that in recent decades it's become more streamlined and efficient. Again, don't look at the conventional sources. That's merely the tip of a colossal, decentralized iceberg. You'd be much better off wading through Soundcloud, Bandcamp, college radio sites... there's just as much variety and awesome stuff as ever. You may not be familiar with any of it, but that's entirely beside the point. This pining for the 70s is just sad.
Back to Yonge St. It's always been on a certain trajectory and change has been a part of that. I don't despair for its future and I certainly don't lament its past. No sense in looking fondly backwards through rose-coloured glasses. My recollection of it in the 70s and 80s was that it was tacky and dumpy. Yeah, I paid regular homage at Sam The Record Man but the rest of it did not move me. But that doesn't preclude the fact that others, like yourself, saw it as a vital place with plenty of offer. I expect much the same range of reactions to Yonge St. will continue, well into the future.
freshcutgrass
Senior Member
Even if that were true, listening to only Arcade Fire will get old quick though.
The fact that rap/hip hop dominates today's music and didn't exist in 1977 is not an argument in your favour. ha ha
If you think rap/hip hop is good music, or that your pants falling down is good fashion, or ebonics is a cool way to talk, or McDonalds is good cuisine, go ahead...it's all subjective right? (wrong)
Subjectivity isn't the issue here....perspective is.
I don't recall blaming anybody. It isn't a case of being a blame game. It's just circumstances. There's quite a few reasons why the 70's had an advantage musically.
I don't need it "explained" to me, nor do I need lecturing about how there is music out there worth listening to...I already know that...I'm listening to it. But to yell "angry old man" at me as an excuse to counter the obvious fact that the 70's was a better decade for "music" is just lazy.
Unlike music, which remains, Yonge St has indeed changed culturally. It used to be the centre of gay Toronto...it used to be the centre of entertainment in Toronto. It had a certain cache it simply no longer has. It's kinda like the CNE...it's a shadow of its former self. I don't "lament" it...like anything great, just glad I was around to soak it up while it lasted. If kids want to spend their time on the internet, poking on their smart phones or playing video games or partly listening to bad "music" through low-fi means...have a ball...it's your life.
Physically it hasn't changed much...it's still "tacky & dumpy". Which is why I suppose making it look good is probably the best way to handle the street. What goes on there seems to have become fairly boring though. I saw Yonge St as a "venue"...what it "looked like" wasn't really on my radar.
Lenser
Senior Member
If you think I was yelling at you then, like many an older gent, you might want to turn down that hearing aide. I think you've run out of stuff to back your argument - now you're stating pseudo-facts ("There's quite a few reasons why the 70's had an advantage musically") without bothering to substantiate them - talk about lazy! It's OK though. I don't think the world hinges on whether we two agree or not - even though your flippant "bad" music" comment is intriguing. I'm dying to hear your definition of it - should be quite fun. I expect plenty of condescending descriptions of how sadly little "the kids" will naively settle with.
Back to Yonge. So you saw it "as a venue" and you didn't care what it looked like. A rough 'n ready event space and a street in one. Now you think it's become boring - I don't disagree. Personally I think its lost its cultural dominance as an exciting main street a long time ago. If I were introducing a stranger to the city I'd sooner show him Queen west-west or Kensington Market. Granted, I don't have the same memories of Yonge Street you do. But no street is meant to have the same solid character and maintain it indefinitely. Especially not now, here, in this city. If anything, Yonge is in one of its cyclical periods of upheaval - it's going upscale and vertical. Its old street-level character is being incrementally erased, one block at a time. The lively carnival atmosphere is giving way to the sterility of big corporate chains and the anonymity of faceless reflective glass, grand temples of consumption and new residential towers. It's fine to lament the past but Yonge may yet morph into something with vitality... it just won't much resemble the 70s. Perhaps something else will take its place, elsewhere in the city. Yonge will still be teeming with people - more than ever, probably. Whether it'll be much of a venue anymore is another thing altogether. I think it's gone so far blandly establishment that it's unlikely to return. It'll be nicer to look at, I expect... more impressive and contemporary. But will you enjoy strolling down it? Who knows.
Back to Yonge. So you saw it "as a venue" and you didn't care what it looked like. A rough 'n ready event space and a street in one. Now you think it's become boring - I don't disagree. Personally I think its lost its cultural dominance as an exciting main street a long time ago. If I were introducing a stranger to the city I'd sooner show him Queen west-west or Kensington Market. Granted, I don't have the same memories of Yonge Street you do. But no street is meant to have the same solid character and maintain it indefinitely. Especially not now, here, in this city. If anything, Yonge is in one of its cyclical periods of upheaval - it's going upscale and vertical. Its old street-level character is being incrementally erased, one block at a time. The lively carnival atmosphere is giving way to the sterility of big corporate chains and the anonymity of faceless reflective glass, grand temples of consumption and new residential towers. It's fine to lament the past but Yonge may yet morph into something with vitality... it just won't much resemble the 70s. Perhaps something else will take its place, elsewhere in the city. Yonge will still be teeming with people - more than ever, probably. Whether it'll be much of a venue anymore is another thing altogether. I think it's gone so far blandly establishment that it's unlikely to return. It'll be nicer to look at, I expect... more impressive and contemporary. But will you enjoy strolling down it? Who knows.
freshcutgrass
Senior Member
Condescension appears to be your thing...not mine.
Ah Ah...point that little finger elsewhere...I offered to give it
Need a few hints? (although I suspect you are just being a purposely annoying contrarian)
*Musicianship...not as important (or totally irrelevant) in today's mainstream music (still exists in non-mainstream genres like jazz and blues though)
*Hedonistic pre-AIDS attitudes.
*Analogue era. Among other things, it meant not just everybody could release music...you needed to convince industry pros to invest in you, and the cream generally rises to the top.
*Everybody didn't suffer from a bad case of ADD.
*You had to pay for music
*Recording quality
*people listened to the "radio"
The list of talent from 1977 for our Arcade Fire fans will have to wait....it's a tad long. *edit* While Funeral seemed to have relevance when it was released (is at #151 on Rolling Stones list of 500 greatest albums...but will it stay there...I doubt it).
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