With the benefit of hindsight, how to change Canada's immigration policy?

[syn]

What racist views? What have I said that is racist? It's time to defend that accusation or cut it out. Yes, I think we have a poverty driven social and crime problem with our Caribbean immigrants, specifically from Jamaica, but that doesn't make me racist, and I've clearly said it has nothing to do with race. I've been told in debate that too many trade unionists in Canada came from Britain, but that doesn't make the teller a racist.

"However, if we can avoid bringing the parents of these future criminals to Canada, we can avoid the problem all together."

-Admiral Beez, KKK

Can't we have an honest and open discussion on Canada's immigration policy and what you might have wanted to change in hindsight? If we're not interested in discussing immigration, then I'll drop it. As an immigrant myself I am interested in the workings and history of Canada's immigrant experience, and enjoy discussing it with others of all origins.

You don't want an honest and open debate on Canada's immigration policy. You want to have us believe your racist nonsense is perfectly tolerable.

 

[TKTKTK]

But Africans were the only true slaves, weren't they? The Europeans, Indians, etc, were all indentured laborers.

Except for the Irish

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

He didn't say black. He said Caribbean. It's your assumption that people from the Caribbean are black that's led you to put words in his mouth

if i got all technical, the satire wouldn't work.

and besides, if someone said they hate people from the mediterranean, it's not racism just because some irish & japanese people happen to live there?

sounds like a great "get out of bigotry free card"

 

[theman23]

What racist views? What have I said that is racist? It's time to defend that accusation or cut it out. Yes, I think we have a poverty driven social and crime problem with our Caribbean immigrants, specifically from Jamaica, but that doesn't make me racist, and I've clearly said it has nothing to do with race. I've been told in debate that too many trade unionists in Canada came from Britain, but that doesn't make the teller a racist.

Its the principle of the matter, and discriminating against persons based on their place of birth not something I think that would gel very well with our liberal society. Instead of being guided by our prejudices, why don't we judge every immigration applicant as an individual, as we are supposed to do currently? With the exception of a few warts here and there, it seems to have worked out well so far.

 

[adma]

If you want to address "pan-generational poverty, higher than average criminal involvement, economic failures" et al, no place better to start than with our First Nations populace...

Get the hint?

 

[syn]

But Africans were the only true slaves, weren't they? The Europeans, Indians, etc, were all indentured laborers.

When slavery was abolished, Indians and others were lured to the West Indies with the promise of great riches and jobs. The reality is that they were essentially slave labour, though technically indentured.

The truth is that people of Caribbean descent have been contributing positively to Canadian society for many, many years. This isn't the first thread on this topic, but the vast majority are hard working and many are educated.

Admiral Beez's obsession with the minority that do get involved in crime (while ignoring such trends with other groups) and his declaration that we "avoid bringing the parents of these future criminals to Canada, we can avoid the problem all together." reads like an excerpt from a Heritage Front brochure.

 

[whatever]

Without baiting the troll, the only major change I'd make to Canada's immigration policy would be to somehow set up an equivalency testing system that would enable foreign-trained professionals to gain credentials usable in Canada. Assess immigrants' training against domestic standards and then determine what, if any, upgrading would be necessary for them to apply their skills here.

It's mindlessly wasteful, the way we force the cream of the world's crop to perform menial tasks in our society. Foreign-trained doctors and scientists and engineers should not be selling slurpees to our own high-school dropouts.

 

[ShonTron]

beez, maybe you can start an initiative kinda like the landover baptist church and have thems colored folks you dislike soo much turn in their immigration papers for something you just know they can't resist....

http://www.landoverbaptist.org/2008/june/obamaoffer.html

That's only a knock-off of the voter registration form found in the Daily Show book, which features a clip-out coupon for White Castle, which voids the form.

I'm not going to get into the other aspects of this thread, except Admiral Beez has lost his ability to shock me anymore with stuff like this.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

I'm not going to get into the other aspects of this thread, except Admiral Beez has lost his ability to shock me anymore with stuff like this.

Then he'll stop posting for a while and return with a new account and a new name and fresh shocking surprises for all...let's see, he went with a Spanish alias last time, so next time could be "Ape Dell'Ammiraglio" or "Admiraals Bij" or even "海軍大将の蜂."

 

[Hydrogen]

Can't we have an honest and open discussion on Canada's immigration policy and what you might have wanted to change in hindsight? If we're not interested in discussing immigration, then I'll drop it. As an immigrant myself I am interested in the workings and history of Canada's immigrant experience, and enjoy discussing it with others of all origins.

How exactly does one develop an immigration policy that can predict future crimes among new arrivals to the country or their Canadian-born children?

Should all of the post-Second World War immigrants from German and Italy have been turned back on the basis of fears over a potential rampant growth of Nazism or Fascism?

 

[Dichotomy]

What racist views? What have I said that is racist? It's time to defend that accusation or cut it out. Yes, I think we have a poverty driven social and crime problem with our Caribbean immigrants, specifically from Jamaica, but that doesn't make me racist, and I've clearly said it has nothing to do with race. I've been told in debate that too many trade unionists in Canada came from Britain, but that doesn't make the teller a racist.

Can't we have an honest and open discussion on Canada's immigration policy and what you might have wanted to change in hindsight? If we're not interested in discussing immigration, then I'll drop it. As an immigrant myself I am interested in the workings and history of Canada's immigrant experience, and enjoy discussing it with others of all origins.

In a word, no. Any 'open' discussion on Canada's immigration policy immediately turns into a slug-fest with the ususal suspects crying 'racist' before any points have been made.
It doesn't matter where 'new Canadians' come from, as a country we are not demanding that they become 'Canadian' any more. Since social liberals have decided long ago that the white Europeans only destroyed and enslaved, we now know there is no such thing as true Canadian culture; therefore, we invite the world to come here and do what they want.
We can thank Trudeau for that. Additionally, the internet, $5 phone cards and cheap international travel ensures that any new immigrants don't need to commit to this country in any way, shape or form.

When Canada was 'settled' at the turn of the last Century, the poor Italians, Polish and others that came here were dumped off at the end of a dusty train station and booted into the Prairies with $50 in their sack and no cultural centers to help them integrate. These people were commited. They would never again see their family or countrymen. Few Canadians had telephones then, so contact with the homeland was only possible via snail mail.
Compare that to today. You can watch your favorite TV shows from your homeland, via satellite. You can email your family back home pictures directly from your picnic site. For about about two weeks wages you can fly anywhere in the world. Why would these people want to commit to Canada?

It does not matter a person's skin color or country of origin. It does, however, matter a great deal what we ask of these people. When entire neighborhoods in Toronto can bee seen without an English sign in sight, you know that somehow, somewhere the system is broken.

 

[cacruden]

^It isn't "no better than racism". It is racism.

Admiral Beez hasn't seem to have noticed that the provinces with the highest crime rates in the country also happen to have the highest concentration of people with European backgrounds.

It seems he always has to make his racist views known at regular intervals with these mindless threads against his most hated 'flavour of the moment' ethnic/cultural groups.

It is discrimination, and that IS THE JOB of immigration controls. You discriminate on who you want to let into the country, and who not to let in the country. If it was not the job to discriminate, there would be no immigration department. I actually agree with Admiral (just not necessarily the selection), that you keep statistics on immigrants from different countries and then modify the weighting system to weight countries where people arrive from and integrate faster (i.e. less social assistance). To be quite honest, I am not sure which would get higher weighting other than from countries like Hong Kong and India (those that come from commonwealth countries - that are not basket cases - are more likely to integrate faster).

You then allow free movement of people between Canada and the US/Mexico (citizens - posing no security problems) for work or travel (part of NAFTA). You have a EU - Canada trade agreement (which includes free movement of people as part of it). Maybe side agreements with other countries that are like minded and successful (i.e. Singapore, HK, etc). Actually, I would prefer a side agreement with part of ASEAN as opposed to Singapore by itself - so maybe Singapore, Malaysia, and Thailand [course Thailand is there just because it is one of my favourites - and I judge based on food - which means maybe we should restrict people from England

And then you adopt the lottery system from the US to add a little bit of balance (maybe 500 per country maximum if not from above criteria).

20+ years ago, I really did not want to move to Toronto because it was not interesting enough (and diverse enough).... I actually prefer Toronto now better than back then.

As far as "racism", I would not allow people in that require full hajab (face covering) to be worn (headscarves are fine) - since they are likely not to integrate into society (since the clothes themselves are meant to segregate the wives from society).

 

[Admiral Beez]

I honestly wasn't sure what sorts of replies I'd see this morning, and considered just deleting my post(s) on the topic and moving on. I expected more accusations of racism, perhaps a troll name calling, more sarcasm, etc. I am pleased however, see the beginning of a good discussion on immigration policy.

It's mindlessly wasteful, the way we force the cream of the world's crop to perform menial tasks in our society. Foreign-trained doctors and scientists and engineers should not be selling slurpees to our own high-school dropouts.

I think Canada does these people a great disservice by somehow making them believe that their skills and experience will be valued here, only to find out when they arrive that they're not. If Canadian employers want stores clerks and cab drivers, then that's what Canada should tell potential immigrants.

How exactly does one develop an immigration policy that can predict future crimes among new arrivals to the country or their Canadian-born children?

It's a hypothetical question, based on hindsight, what would you have done to change the system? If you don't like those sorts of questons, that's okay too.

I judge based on food - which means maybe we should restrict people from England

Certainly my peoples' cooking has been the leading cause of premature death for many

 

[cacruden]

I would use statistics based on social assistance needed overall, and criminal activity. Weighting would take these numerical models and weight "integration". Weighting of the last 5 years worth of immigrants would be worth more than those that are 20+ years - so if there are major socio-economic changes in that country that have changed the complexion - the weighting will change.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Prometheus:

Indentured servantry.

AoD