Why I support the TTC (sort of).

[JayBee]

Over paid? TTC salaries are similar to other big city transit workers like Montreal, Philly, NYC.

Do you have any stats to back this up?

I'm just going to ignore that other guy's post.

 

[nfitz]

Do you have any stats to back this up?

In terms of operators, we certainly have heard many reports over the years, that they do have problems with retention, with staff going to over agencies once they are well trained. There's not much you could cut salaries, before you have a big problem.

Ticket attendants certainly a problem; but this is more of a hang-over of the old policy of putting drivers who were too old (and bitter) to drive regularly any more in this position. What's worse, paying them to sit looking at tickets, or sit at home on disability. Though this is also a root cause of many of the customer-service complaints. This problem should fix itself slowly over the years, as automation replaces many of the really dull positions.

 

[JayBee]

In terms of operators, we certainly have heard many reports over the years, that they do have problems with retention, with staff going to over agencies once they are well trained. There's not much you could cut salaries, before you have a big problem.

Ticket attendants certainly a problem; but this is more of a hang-over of the old policy of putting drivers who were too old (and bitter) to drive regularly any more in this position. What's worse, paying them to sit looking at tickets, or sit at home on disability. Though this is also a root cause of many of the customer-service complaints. This problem should fix itself slowly over the years, as automation replaces many of the really dull positions.

That's what I was originally getting at. The lack of automation is disappointing. A lot of the staff is not needed. And I never said that salaries should be cut. It's never a good idea to cut worker salaries, I mean, it's not their fault they're overpaid. Paying someone an inflated salary and full benefits to "ticket-watch" makes no sense when you're cash-strapped.

 

[rbt]

Do you have any stats to back this up?

I'm just going to ignore that other guy's post.

We have two years (2007 and 2008 IIRC) where budgeted and funded bus service improvements were not implemented due to a lack of drivers.

 

[Electrify]

A couple of things:

1. While Europe is far more developed in terms of transit, it is far from being anti-car. While generally owning the same vehicle model over there is more expensive than owning the same one here, they also have smaller, cheaper, and more fuel efficient models than what they offer here.

2. If Toronto had a subway network like (insert city here), it would be a dense network between Eglinton, Victoria Park, and the Humber River with the rest of the city left out to dry. What Toronto needs more than anything is an expanded, intensified, and electrified commuter rail system similar to places like Sydney, Paris, London, and arguably San Francisco. This would address the speed and distance requirements that the Toronto region faces far better than an expanded subway network.

 

[PIX]

You hit the nail on the nose Jaybee. Especially with regard to a). In my experience this happens each of the 4 times I've used the Pape Subway this year. Those bus drivers need to be polite to customers asking for directions

The TTC can kiss my ass to be honest.

I don't pay $3 a trip to:

a) get verbally abused by staff
b) sit in trains with no A/C
c) deal with delays on a daily basis (even during non-rush hour times)
d) deal with strikes every few years
e) wait 15 mins for a bus that's supposed to arrive every 5 mins
f) deal with having to switch trains for no reason


I've used public transportation in other cities and have never come away saying "Geez, Toronto's got this place beat!" it's usually the opposite. There are huge flaws with the TTC and their solution is to add buses. Overpaid staff? Add buses. Customer Service issues? Add buses. Subway delays? Add buses!!!

Edit: Funding is a huge part of the equation. If the TTC had all the funding in the world, I'm confident they would find a way to squander it.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Here's a quote from Stephen Ree's blog at this link:

Two Americans have a new book aimed at Americans. Our problems may be similar, but we heard not one word about Canada until the audience spoke. Even then I found it laughable that Torontonians love the TTC! In my experience in every city where I have been, transit users are always highly critical of their own transit system and especially the body that runs it.

 

[nfitz]

You hit the nail on the nose Jaybee. Especially with regard to a). In my experience this happens each of the 4 times I've used the Pape Subway this year.

If you've used Pape Station 4 times this year, and you've been verbally abused 4 times ... then unless it's the same guy (though I'm not sure why one even has to speak to any TTC staff for most trips) ... I'd think the common factor is you.

 

[RedRocket191]

Sometimes people just have an excessively low levels of tolerance for defiance. I can't count the number of times I've seen people flip out even though they are in the wrong.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

PIX:

Those bus drivers need to be polite to customers asking for directions

Yes and no - as a bus rider, I have been in way too many instances where the bus was delayed by customers asking for directions when they haven't had the faintest clue about geography. It really is the rider's' responsiblity to make sure they know the route before boarding - responding to route inquires is a courtesy, nothing more.

AoD

 

[doug]

It really is the rider's' responsiblity to make sure they know the route before boarding - responding to route inquires is a courtesy, nothing more.

So, when a potential customer asks the 504 streetcar driver where he's going...because the sign says Dundas west station, and the car is travelling eastbound, it's considered a courtesy to get an answer other than"read the sign"?
If the driver doesn't know east from west, perhaps he shouldn't be one.

 

[JayBee]

So, when a potential customer asks the 504 streetcar driver where he's going...because the sign says Dundas west station, and the car is travelling eastbound, it's considered a courtesy to get an answer other than"read the sign"?
If the driver doesn't know east from west, perhaps he shouldn't be one.

No matter what you say, there are some on here who think TTC staff can do no wrong. If they're rude, then obviously you did something to provoke them.

 

[JayBee]

If you've used Pape Station 4 times this year, and you've been verbally abused 4 times ... then unless it's the same guy (though I'm not sure why one even has to speak to any TTC staff for most trips) ... I'd think the common factor is you.

Right on cue LOL

 

[JLankford]

This was an interesting thread to read, thanks OP.

I think the whole issue of 'cost' is better put into perspective when comparing it to North American transit systems, whether it be in Canada, or the States. Cost of living on other continents really has an effect on the cost, and isn't really what we should be looking at.

For example, MUNI in San Francisco is $2USD to ride, and $60USD for a monthly pass ($70USD if you want to use BART as well). Fares for MUNI have doubled since 2002 as well. Your fare is valid for 90 minutes after purchase as well, which is what so many cities do and it makes sense. The fact that you have to pay two fares if you jump off to grab a coffee and back on is crazy. And of course BART/MUNI work together much better than GO/TTC do, but I guess that relationship is more like CalTrain.

Anyways..

 

[SlickFranky]

No matter what you say, there are some on here who think TTC staff can do no wrong. If they're rude, then obviously you did something to provoke them.

No one said their service is perfect. But come on now...he's 4 for 4, and I'm 3 for about 800 (this year). And the 3 weren't rude to me personally, they were rude to other riders.
Have you considered the following possibilities: he's being targetted by their staff, he's hypersensitive, he's extremely unlucky, or he's asking for it in some way.