Why I support the TTC (sort of).

[nfitz]

I know where to buy tokens, I choose not too.


$6 isn't $25. It's barely a quarter of it.

It's still a pretty small sum.

Hey, if you want to pay extra money to subsidize our transit system, I'm all in favour. Heck, if you want to drop five-dollar bills in the farebox, go for it! This thread is about supporting TTC after all!

Tokens are a really antiquated, although quaint, form of fare payment. I can't remember the last time I bought a token. When I have had to take the TTC, I've paid cash. Last time was probably New Year's though.

Sure ... if one doesn't actually use the TTC then I can see not using tokens ...

... but why on earth is someone who doesn't use transit always trying to tell us how it should work?

 

[W. K. Lis]

It's still a pretty small sum.

Hey, if you want to pay extra money to subsidize our transit system, I'm all in favour. Heck, if you want to drop five-dollar bills in the farebox, go for it! This thread is about supporting TTC after all!

You can also help reduce Ontario's debt by completing an area on your income tax form to donate some or all of your income tax refund to the Ontario Ontario Opportunities Fund by filling line LINE 465. I sure do NOT, but someone (anyone?) could. It would be the same as paying full cash fare when there are lower fares available.

 

[GraphicMatt]

I think if you surveyed residents of any major city they'd tell you how annoyed and frustrated they are by various aspects of their transit system. This is certainly not behaviour unique to Toronto. People will bitch endlessly about the highway system, too.

I do think there's tons of room for improvements, but most of those improvements will come through measured, long-term strategy and leadership and not get-rich-quick schemes like yelling 'privatization!' endlessly. And certainly not from listening to people from the suburbs who are part of local transit advocacy networks but haven't used the system in six months.

 

[ssiguy2]

That's the problem with Toronto..............it uses long term, measured strategies and it gets them no where. Toronto needs a can do attitude. If the money is there then construction should begin within 6 months.
Vancouver's 18km Millenium Line took just 22 months to build from the announcement. Toronto would have only struck up an open house by then. My god look at the Spadina Line...........a decade for 8 km at an unfathomable $300 million per km in the burbs and where there is a rail corridor for 3km which they refused to use. There is no way that line should have come in at more than $2 billion and that savings of $1.1 billion would build {on the rest of the planet} 5km of subway. In other words they could have finished the Sheppard line east to STC.
Imagine if you were McGuinty and you funded all the TC lines proposed only to find out just 18 months later that the price has doubled. If Miller and the boys were honest about the figures in the first place maybe McGuinty might not be so pissed off at them.

 

[nfitz]

You can also help reduce Ontario's debt by completing an area on your income tax form to donate some or all of your income tax refund to the Ontario Ontario Opportunities Fund by filling line LINE 465. I sure do NOT, but someone (anyone?) could. It would be the same as paying full cash fare when there are lower fares available.

Hey, I do that every year. I always give 1¢ ... in protest to the lunacy of having that line on the tax form.

 

[nfitz]

Vancouver's 18km Millenium Line took just 22 months to build from the announcement.

No it didn't. It opened in August 2009; construction began in 2005! And the first announcement from the Ministry of Transport was in 1998. Detailed studies were in place by 2000.

I'm not sure why you say things like 22 months ... the timeframes are similar to what we see in Toronto. They shaved perhaps a year off the construction itself, with the PPP, but we are still talking over a decade ... longer than the Sheppard LRT ...

 

[GraphicMatt]

I don't doubt that like magic we'd see several transit improvements in the course of a few years if Toronto were to host an Olympic Games. It's not always a question of funding or leadership - sometimes the only thing that can get all three levels of government (and the various ministries and departments and agencies that make up those levels of government) to play nice together is an important, Olympic-size deadline.

 

[W. K. Lis]

When I was in the United States, I ride their subways/metros, in the non-rush hour. The very first time I did, I missed the train, so I waited. And waited. And waited. I thought that there was a problem with the trains, but eventually one came. Turned out, after further investigation, that the non-rush hour frequency (or headway) was close to 10 minutes. Toronto's subway headway in the non-hour was closer to 5 minutes. Even the Sheppard subway runs at 5 minutes, but not the American rapid transit lines. Their normal headway is at not as frequent as the TTC's. Now whenever I am in some other city, I try to consult their timetables, and I am not surprised if I usually I find them at a less frequent headway.

 

[nfitz]

When I was in the United States, I ride their subways/metros, in the non-rush hour. The very first time I did, I missed the train, so I waited. And waited. And waited. I thought that there was a problem with the trains, but eventually one came. Turned out, after further investigation, that the non-rush hour frequency (or headway) was close to 10 minutes.

Not just the USA. Montreal as well, the metro frequency drops to as long as 11 minutes off-peak at night. Heck, the blue line doesn't do better than an 8 minute frequency on the weekend, and is only a 9 minute frequency on a weekday after rush hour is over.

 

[Justin10000]

Miami MetroRail run a 15-30 minute frequency after 6:00 on the weekdays.

 

[Swarley]

Basically, outside of Asia, every major city has transit issues, and everyone likes to think that their transit provider is the worst.

People who say that the TTC is SO much worse than every major city (ie. Jaybee) really need some perspective though.

 

[nfitz]

Basically, outside of Asia, every major city has transit issues, and everyone likes to think that their transit provider is the worst.

Having lived in Indonesia ... trust me, some Asian cities have transit problems. I've spent time in Bangkok as well ... there are huge transit issues there; the subway is clean and efficient ... but very short. The Skytrain is overcrowded; and much of the city only has buses ... buses that sit in traffic not moving. And people in Toronto complain about A/C on buses and streetcars ... you should see Bangkok!

And the cities I've been in, in India, had horrific transit as well.

Frankly, the only cities I've seen we've half-decent transit were in South Korea ... but even then, I've stood longer than I expected for buses in Busan ... had a nightmare of a time finding the right bus in Suwon ... and spent a long-time sitting on subways in Seoul - they are extensive ... but really they need an RER network, rather than just the airport express train, and the express service on the KTX line. And despite the decent subway system, the traffic in Seoul seems very bad. Yes, Seoul has a more extensive subway than Toronto. The city also dwarfs Toronto with a city population of over 10 million, compared to our 2.5 million; and a metro population of about 25 million compared to about 5 million in Toronto. The densities there are stunning, while we are about 4,000 per square kilometre, they are over 17,000 per square kilometre.

I think some of the reason that people think transit elsewhere is much better, is that tourists tend to be in the centre of the city. If you're in Toronto, with all the subway stations downtown, the GO Trains running in and out of Union, streetcars passing every couple of minutes, and you avoid rush hour (as tourists often tend to do), you'd probably think Toronto transit if fantastic! I've waited in suburban London for the once-an-hour commuter train that's late ... the horribly long Underground rides, the unbelievable heat on the tube ... buses that don't come, or just don't get you where you want to go.

What we have is better than average; and it is improving. Buses are more frequent, we have new infrastructure coming in. We have a huge amount of new vehicles. The buses are already all pretty recent, except for a few that should be replaced in the next 18 months. All the streetcars are being replaced, and all the 20th century subway trains are to be replaced by the end of 2013. And there's a huge GO expansion taking place.

We should be greatful for what we have, and be looking to how to improve it.

 

[ssiguy2]

No it didn't. It opened in August 2009; construction began in 2005! And the first announcement from the Ministry of Transport was in 1998. Detailed studies were in place by 2000.

I'm not sure why you say things like 22 months ... the timeframes are similar to what we see in Toronto. They shaved perhaps a year off the construction itself, with the PPP, but we are still talking over a decade ... longer than the Sheppard LRT ...

I said the Millenium Line NOT the Canada Line. Even if you use the Canada Line remember it's a full Metro while Sheppard is an at grade streetcar.

 

[Asterix]

where there is a rail corridor for 3km which they refused to use.

Why do you continue to go on about rail corridors?

I thought it had been previously pointed out that the city does not own that land and can't just arbitrarily tell the private owners (federally regulated industries) that they are going to muscle them out, take over their tracks, dump new infrastructure on them and otherwise seriously mess up with their business.

Same thing with Hydro corridors. Not city land. (And while the Hydro corridors do see some development in terms of parking lots or the York U bus byway, the company is probably not big on having electrically powered lines running under their high voltage transmission lines).

 

[nfitz]

I said the Millenium Line NOT the Canada Line. Even if you use the Canada Line remember it's a full Metro while Sheppard is an at grade streetcar.

It's a 40-metre long full metro, with the ability to expand to 50-metres. The Sheppard LRT has a higher potential capacity!

As for the timeframe of the Millenium line ... sorry ... I wasn't thinking that one. 22 months? They announced the Skytrain extension from Columbia to VCC-Clark in the 1990s ... and VCC-Clark finally opened in 2006. Even ignoring how long it took to build the final station, it was still more than 22 months. If I remember correctly the contracts to build it were awarded in 1999 ... and design and planning long predated that.