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Welcome to Police State Canada

I'm professionally and tempermentally inclined not to like or trust cops very much, but in this case, I don't see what happened that is wrong. I can see that the rent-a-mob doesn't like it, but everything that the rent-a-mob dislikes is not necessarily wrong or improper.
 
And most grow out of this phase. I think it's definitely seen as a rite of passage by many to participate in these types of protests. I guess eventually they grow up, realize that they system is what it is, and that protesting is a pretty useless thing.
 
BTW, why do we presume that anyone who protests against these Globalization confererences is a leftist? Some of the most ardent supporters of protectionist and isolationist politics are those of the far right.

I can't think of an anti-war, anti-capitalist, or anti-imperialist protest in which the right showed up in noticeable numbers. The SPP protests are largely anti-capitalist.

I'm professionally and tempermentally inclined not to like or trust cops very much, but in this case, I don't see what happened that is wrong. I can see that the rent-a-mob doesn't like it, but everything that the rent-a-mob dislikes is not necessarily wrong or improper.

Not sure what "rent-a-mob" refers to. Can you define your term?

Other than that, I think the situation's been laid out as clearly as it's going to get. Mainstream media has come out in droves criticizing the tactics of agents provocateurs; major media outlets are denouncing any moves by police to act violently or provoke others. If you still have to ask, you'll never understand.

And most grow out of this phase. I think it's definitely seen as a rite of passage by many to participate in these types of protests. I guess eventually they grow up, realize that they system is what it is, and that protesting is a pretty useless thing.

Untrue. In fact, in many activist organizations, the main problem is getting more younger people involved.
 
Not sure what "rent-a-mob" refers to. Can you define your term?

Of course - "rent-a-mob" refers to those self proclaimed anarchists and activists who can be reliably counted on to show up to protest anything.

Other than that, I think the situation's been laid out as clearly as it's going to get. Mainstream media has come out in droves criticizing the tactics of agents provocateurs; major media outlets are denouncing any moves by police to act violently or provoke others. If you still have to ask, you'll never understand.

This story appears to have been a one day wonder everywhere but here, even though it's August and a slow news period. I'll resign myself to never understand the alleged problem, especially since you can't articulate it.
 
I think the problem arises when:

1) Agents provocateurs attack police lines physically, and as undercover police agents, can do so without fear of legal consequences.
2) Uniformed officers retaliate against said undercover agents in order to incite the standers-by to get involved.

This is behaviour unbecoming of the people to whom we entrust our safety. It is also contrary to the stated goal of the police when guarding such gatherings: to defuse any possible violence before it occurs. Indeed, this strategy aims to maximise violence and therefore arrests. Also, posing as protestors and generally acting as an idiot can be seen as a political activity undertaken to discredit whatever movement is doing the protesting.

Either way, it is our police force acting in such a way as to severely threaten the principles our of democracy.
 
I think the problem arises when:

1) Agents provocateurs attack police lines physically, and as undercover police agents, can do so without fear of legal consequences.
2) Uniformed officers retaliate against said undercover agents in order to incite the standers-by to get involved.

I don't disagree, but neither happened in this case. There were legal consequences, and no one was incited to anything.
 
What were the legal consequences, ap? None of the police were charged. None were charged. They "disappeared" as soon as they were arrested and the police claimed to have no record of them. Then, the police admitted that they were undercover officers. The fact that they failed to successfully incite the protestors to violence would seem to be quite obviously to reflect positively on the protestors rather than on the police.
 
I can't think of an anti-war, anti-capitalist, or anti-imperialist protest in which the right showed up in noticeable numbers. The SPP protests are largely anti-capitalist.

I don't think he was making reference to the protests, but to globalization in general. Then again, you don't see the crush, bash and burn protester-types on the inside of the meeting rooms engaged in negotiation and discussion. There are reasons for that.
 
What were the legal consequences, ap? None of the police were charged. None were charged. They "disappeared" as soon as they were arrested and the police claimed to have no record of them. Then, the police admitted that they were undercover officers. The fact that they failed to successfully incite the protestors to violence would seem to be quite obviously to reflect positively on the protestors rather than on the police.

They were arrested - that's a legal consequence. It may not be the one the rent a mob wanted, but that's irrelevant.
 
I hope those officers and thier superiors are nailed under the police act for conduduct unbecoming and breach of public trust. totally uacceptable, I really hope some heads roll from this.
 
Democracy threat countered by Youtube and indie media - union leader Dave Coles

There are a number of issues that concern us. The reporting of the media and how they refuse to take our issues seriously. There's the issue of the infiltration by the police of a democratic process. There's entrapment, personal assault against me and my staff, the whole issue of political direction. Which politician made that determination they should infiltrate us?

HI: What made the story take off? Technology is a marvelous thing. We had the Youtube and digital pictures, and more pictures coming. We had two or three pretty clear shots of their faces. The cops knew we were going to Facebook them. The media had been talking to me. Sooner or later, somebody in Quebec was going to say "That's my neighbour." There was no way. Facebook, all the blogs. They got caught. Without a democratic free press, there is no democracy. Right now indie media is what's saving our butt in the democracy. Very few Canadians understand the importance of it. The Web is going to be the foundation of democracy for a while.

Many more issues brought up in the interview.
 
They were arrested - that's a legal consequence. It may not be the one the rent a mob wanted, but that's irrelevant.

I just can't comprehend why you don't see that the "arrest" was simply a part of the staged assault on the police lines. It was the only way for the cops to get their buddies away from the scene. What were the undercover cops supposed to do? Take off their masks and join the police line?

I'd also add that the undercover officers assaulted a citizen, both verbally and physically.
 
Of course - "rent-a-mob" refers to those self proclaimed anarchists and activists who can be reliably counted on to show up to protest anything.

Aren't all activists "self-proclaimed"? And is that any different from you being a "self-procliamed" critic?

Do you know for a fact that there are people who "show up to protest anything", as if they are protesting for the sake of protesting - instead of standing up for what they think is right (instead of being apathetic or complacent - or ignorant)? The reason you see many of the same faces at different protests is that so many of these struggles are linked. Anti-war, anti-capitalism, workers' rights, health care, racial discrimination, and many more causes are all linked by oppression of minorities and government action to support corporations instead of people. There is a lot of solidarity among the oppressed.

I think your lack of understanding here comes from not taking the time or making the effort to examine these people or the issues. It's easy to dismiss it all when you don't take time to learn what people are actually fighting for.

Your ignorance is only matched by your arrogance.

This story appears to have been a one day wonder everywhere but here, even though it's August and a slow news period. I'll resign myself to never understand the alleged problem, especially since you can't articulate it.

It's been articulated clearly, starting with the video. You seem to be the only one having trouble with comprehension.
 
The reason you see many of the same faces at different protests is that so many of these struggles are linked. Anti-war, anti-capitalism, workers' rights, health care, racial discrimination, and many more causes are all linked by oppression of minorities and government action to support corporations instead of people.

Yet it is so hard to find the recurring protestor who can actually generate a coherent sentence as to what they would do with respect to all these "linked" issues. Platitudes are fun, criticism is easy; actually comprehending the complexity of any of these issues takes time. There is no perfection to be found; just a wide range of political attitudes and approaches. And in no case are any solutions to be found by battling police on the streets, or through petulant acts of vandalism.
 
Whether I agree with what is being protested or not, the right to protest is essential to any democracy, and sometimes it is the best vehicle for instituting change in a non-democracy as well.

You say it is hard to find anyone that is coherent on these matters in that group of protestors, but what is that based on? Have you talked to them personally? Don't be surprised by how the media contributes to this inarticulate impression. And as for the police, they have been for the most part spoken for by Savard, a person not interested in getting to the bottom of the problem but in defensive postures only. And what about when the police infiltrators have been cornered, they are often as contradictory and inarticulate as anyone else.

Vandalism is sometimes an unintended side effect of any protest, but sometimes it is not. "The Boston Tea Party" that Americans point to as one of the justifiable acts of the American Revolution, was out-and-out vandalism. The peaceful extension of this, was the refusal to drink taxed tea - which supposedly led to the American switch to coffee in the years that followed (I know, this is a half-truth, but reflects a perception about the relative value of the Tea Party). Am I personally advocating vandalism? Of course my answer is an emphatic no! But the reality is that vandalism can be expected in some scenarios, regardless of how hard the protest organizers try to avoid it. And when it happens, it is not always petulant, nor always negative in its consequence. In the grand scheme of things, reality can often be more complex and confounding than anyone could suspect or would want.

As others before us have recognized - democracy can be rather messy when we view it in action, but it is still the best thing man has devised to-date. If left to the machinations of these police operatives, we'd have one of democracy's greatest outlets to express discontent go underground and fester, and that would invite a much greater threat in the longer view.
 

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