Waterloo Region Transit Developments (ION LRT, new terminal, GRT buses)

[Bureaucromancer]

I'll add that the crowd s themselves were pretty reasonable today, GRT staff were not. By late in the day I was repeatedly ordered not to board "full" trains that were nowhere near such. One of the "station captains" advised me that they had been told to only board 8 passengers whatever the actual load conditions.


On top of this silliness almost every station with multiple entrances had Jersey barriers and staff blocking all but the one they'd set up for lines, demanding you use their queue whatever the actual number of passengers. And then there was the decision to not let people wait on the platforms anywhere set up for lines - no one waiting, no trains for 10 minutes but "no you can't sit on the benches, go line up outside". The whole thing felt like they think this is some sort of tourist attraction. I suppose they'll calm down eventually...

 

[adrianaliu]

the greatest problem present in surface lrt lines is lack of speed. imo there are 3 things contributing to it in this case, 2 of which can be fixed:
- signal priority was there for sure but it would often activate after the lrv either already stopped or began to slow down siginificantly. idk much about signal priority but it would be more useful if the signals would change as the lrv approaches the intersection and preferably before it slows down too much.
- the route is full of sharp turns, the lrvs already have to slow down significantly on more moderate turns, but slow down to a laughable pace at sharp corners, this is a result of the totally messed up road network in kw, and a perfect alignment (which in my opinion would not include the diversion on borden/ottawa/hayward/courtland) would still be fill of sharp turns.
- speed limits are too low in some parts, eventually the operators will drive at slightly higher speeds, but iirc the trains are automated along the spur parts so there is no chance of that happening there, either way the speed problems mostly persist on the on-street sections.
Of the three signal priority poses the greatest problem and is likely to be fixed.

 

[Coolstar]

the greatest problem present in surface lrt lines is lack of speed. imo there are 3 things contributing to it in this case, 2 of which can be fixed:
- signal priority was there for sure but it would often activate after the lrv either already stopped or began to slow down siginificantly. idk much about signal priority but it would be more useful if the signals would change as the lrv approaches the intersection and preferably before it slows down too much.
- the route is full of sharp turns, the lrvs already have to slow down significantly on more moderate turns, but slow down to a laughable pace at sharp corners, this is a result of the totally messed up road network in kw, and a perfect alignment (which in my opinion would not include the diversion on borden/ottawa/hayward/courtland) would still be fill of sharp turns.
- speed limits are too low in some parts, eventually the operators will drive at slightly higher speeds, but iirc the trains are automated along the spur parts so there is no chance of that happening there, either way the speed problems mostly persist on the on-street sections.
Of the three signal priority poses the greatest problem and is likely to be fixed.

The LRV'S themselves aren't fully automated. They use ATP(Automatic Train Protection).

 

[Leo_Chan]

the greatest problem present in surface lrt lines is lack of speed. imo there are 3 things contributing to it in this case, 2 of which can be fixed:
- signal priority was there for sure but it would often activate after the lrv either already stopped or began to slow down siginificantly. idk much about signal priority but it would be more useful if the signals would change as the lrv approaches the intersection and preferably before it slows down too much.
- the route is full of sharp turns, the lrvs already have to slow down significantly on more moderate turns, but slow down to a laughable pace at sharp corners, this is a result of the totally messed up road network in kw, and a perfect alignment (which in my opinion would not include the diversion on borden/ottawa/hayward/courtland) would still be fill of sharp turns.
- speed limits are too low in some parts, eventually the operators will drive at slightly higher speeds, but iirc the trains are automated along the spur parts so there is no chance of that happening there, either way the speed problems mostly persist on the on-street sections.
Of the three signal priority poses the greatest problem and is likely to be fixed.

I wonder if the only way to speed up the route would be to ring that bell continuously along the entire route, not only at intersections and stations. There would definitely be complaints about noise though.

 

[Irishmonk]

The idiot transit planners/system managers (or wtf they're called on this side of the pond) should spend some time on the trams in Amsterdam--those suckers go flying along at a breakneck pace, regardless of track curves--you need to hang on to something for dear life or be tossed around like a football on quarterback tryouts day.
I've never understood why streetcars here lallygag along at an absurdly leisurely pace for no apparent reason. The sooner self-aware A.I's start driving our transit vehicles the better.

 

[W. K. Lis]

The idiot transit planners/system managers (or wtf they're called on this side of the pond) should spend some time on the trams in Amsterdam--those suckers go flying along at a breakneck pace, regardless of track curves--you need to hang on to something for dear life or be tossed around like a football on quarterback tryouts day.
I've never understood why streetcars here lallygag along at an absurdly leisurely pace for no apparent reason. The sooner self-aware A.I's start driving our transit vehicles the better.

Passengers, please lean into the curves.

 

[Fred.S]

Rode the LRT today, was nice, enjoyed the station spacing, and signal priority, though I agree it ran painfully slow sometimes.

Rode 4 of the LRVS, only one of them hit a car, so not bad I guess.

 

[KevinT]

A great time lapse ride video:

 

[KevinT]

So I took ION to work this morning. Two buses and a train from stop 2047 in Doon South (the extreme southwest of Kitchener service) to the R&T Park Station (in north Waterloo) took just an hour and ten minutes, almost the exact time it takes me by bike. (I would have biked to Fairway to meet up with ION but I'm a fair weather biker and there was that threat of rain today.)

Observations:

Just as I'd experienced last night, there were no 'next stop' announcements northbound anywhere from Fairway through Grand River Hospital, they only started at Allen station. I do however love that they announce the connecting bus routes!

There was not a single graphic I spotted inside the train to explain what the 'door open' buttons were, and lots of people were confused when it came time to get off. The operator stepped out of the cab at Block Line to explain to everyone (since the internal PA was tinny sounding and constantly fed back, making it next to useless) that you had to push the button on the door when it turned green to get off the train, but a lot of people didn't pay attention. A high school student that was literally right beside the operator during the speech started to freak out and knock on the glass when the train pulled away with them still on it, then expected the operator to immediately stop and let them out on the tracks! Two of us calmed them down and explained that they could get off at Mill and re-board a southbound train, and that they had to push the button when it turned green both to get off and back on to the other train. Sadly the southbound train just pulled out of Mill as we pulled in, so they had a 10 minute wait ahead of them. We demonstrated the door opening process when the train stopped at Mill.

Confusion continued at every stop and by Central Station I got out of my seat and babysat the nearest door, since so many people didn't know what to do and couldn't get on or off. Some vinyl icons above the button on both the inside and outside of every door, as well as announcements on both the platform and in-train PA system every 3 to 4 minutes would go a long way towards resolving the issue. I hope it doesn't become like the TTC where they just give up on the buttons and open all doors at every stop, which will be awful on cold or hot muggy days as the HVAC struggles to keep up.

Even after a door button was pushed, the doors seemed to close too quickly. One, maybe two, people would make it in or out but then the chimes would sound and the next person would get caught unless they were quick to push the button again. It was quite distressing for the kid guillotined in their stroller! I wonder if they could just have a door stay open after activation for 60 seconds or until the train were ready to depart again (whichever came sooner)?

Everyone remained as friendly and talkative as they were during the weekend demo service, which was nice to see as my train seemed to be 90% commuters compared to the 90% tourists on my weekend trips.

In all I'm really digging this service, but there's still a few unfortunate glitches to be worked out. I hope they're lightning quick to get them tuned before people start getting turned off of the system.

 

[crs1026]

^Doing my test ride now. The door confusion and timing issues are evident, but I’m ssure that with even a couple of rides more people will sort this out.
More worrisome was people crossing the tracks and roadways when they got on/off....lots of unsafe pedestrian behaviour, mostly taking the shortest possible route. In contrast, up at UW there were crowds of students waiting patiently when the gates went down....students being students, I would have predicted more ignoring the barriers.
Biggest issue for me was that it just didn’t feel fast, too many curves and certainly running less than the posted limits in many spots (I rode at the rear where I could watch the speedometer).
What saves the journey for me was the traffic priority - yes, it needs tweaking but even as is, it keeps the car moving and that saves a whack of seconds at each intersection.
The ride quality was impressive - if courae, the roadbed is brand new - and the Flexities did show some impressive acceleration in spots especially on grades. So it was far more enjoyable than the equivalent bus ride.
I just hope the circuitous route and the mellow pace is attractive to actual riders as opposed to us tourists.

- Paul

 

[nfitz]

In all I'm really digging this service, but there's still a few unfortunate glitches to be worked out.

This is why TTC quickly took to simply opening all doors if they were stopping.

The censors in the door should detect something in the way and re-open quickly ... though I wonder where the lowest one is, and if a stroller could get stuck.

 

[Northern Light]

So I took ION to work this morning. Two buses and a train from stop 2047 in Doon South (the extreme southwest of Kitchener service) to the R&T Park Station (in north Waterloo) took just an hour and ten minutes, almost the exact time it takes me by bike. (I would have biked to Fairway to meet up with ION but I'm a fair weather biker and there was that threat of rain today.)

Observations:

Just as I'd experienced last night, there were no 'next stop' announcements northbound anywhere from Fairway through Grand River Hospital, they only started at Allen station. I do however love that they announce the connecting bus routes!

There was not a single graphic I spotted inside the train to explain what the 'door open' buttons were, and lots of people were confused when it came time to get off. The operator stepped out of the cab at Block Line to explain to everyone (since the internal PA was tinny sounding and constantly fed back, making it next to useless) that you had to push the button on the door when it turned green to get off the train, but a lot of people didn't pay attention. A high school student that was literally right beside the operator during the speech started to freak out and knock on the glass when the train pulled away with them still on it, then expected the operator to immediately stop and let them out on the tracks! Two of us calmed them down and explained that they could get off at Mill and re-board a southbound train, and that they had to push the button when it turned green both to get off and back on to the other train. Sadly the southbound train just pulled out of Mill as we pulled in, so they had a 10 minute wait ahead of them. We demonstrated the door opening process when the train stopped at Mill.

Confusion continued at every stop and by Central Station I got out of my seat and babysat the nearest door, since so many people didn't know what to do and couldn't get on or off. Some vinyl icons above the button on both the inside and outside of every door, as well as announcements on both the platform and in-train PA system every 3 to 4 minutes would go a long way towards resolving the issue. I hope it doesn't become like the TTC where they just give up on the buttons and open all doors at every stop, which will be awful on cold or hot muggy days as the HVAC struggles to keep up.

Even after a door button was pushed, the doors seemed to close too quickly. One, maybe two, people would make it in or out but then the chimes would sound and the next person would get caught unless they were quick to push the button again. It was quite distressing for the kid guillotined in their stroller! I wonder if they could just have a door stay open after activation for 60 seconds or until the train were ready to depart again (whichever came sooner)?

Everyone remained as friendly and talkative as they were during the weekend demo service, which was nice to see as my train seemed to be 90% commuters compared to the 90% tourists on my weekend trips.

In all I'm really digging this service, but there's still a few unfortunate glitches to be worked out. I hope they're lightning quick to get them tuned before people start getting turned off of the system.

^Doing my test ride now. The door confusion and timing issues are evident, but I’m ssure that with even a couple of rides more people will sort this out.
More worrisome was people crossing the tracks and roadways when they got on/off....lots of unsafe pedestrian behaviour, mostly taking the shortest possible route. In contrast, up at UW there were crowds of students waiting patiently when the gates went down....students being students, I would have predicted more ignoring the barriers.
Biggest issue for me was that it just didn’t feel fast, too many curves and certainly running less than the posted limits in many spots (I rode at the rear where I could watch the speedometer).
What saves the journey for me was the traffic priority - yes, it needs tweaking but even as is, it keeps the car moving and that saves a whack of seconds at each intersection.
The ride quality was impressive - if courae, the roadbed is brand new - and the Flexities did show some impressive acceleration in spots especially on grades. So it was far more enjoyable than the equivalent bus ride.
I just hope the circuitous route and the mellow pace is attractive to actual riders as opposed to us tourists.

- Paul

These are some excellent and insightful comments, I would encourage you both to forward them to Grand River Transit so they can benefit.

 

[robmausser]

The idiot transit planners/system managers (or wtf they're called on this side of the pond) should spend some time on the trams in Amsterdam--those suckers go flying along at a breakneck pace, regardless of track curves--you need to hang on to something for dear life or be tossed around like a football on quarterback tryouts day.
I've never understood why streetcars here lallygag along at an absurdly leisurely pace for no apparent reason. The sooner self-aware A.I's start driving our transit vehicles the better.

Ironically while Europe is seen as being more "liberal" they are less concerned about safety. I would say they are reasonably concerned about safety. Here in North America something happened in the 1980s that put us on a trajectory towards unsubstantiated, reasonless, emotion based hyper safety at all costs.

 

[crs1026]

Ironically while Europe is seen as being more "liberal" they are less concerned about safety. I would say they are reasonably concerned about safety. Here in North America something happened in the 1980s that put us on a trajectory towards unsubstantiated, reasonless, emotion based hyper safety at all costs.

I wonder how liability insurance works over there, and would comparable incidents have comparable likelihood of generating comparable judgements and awards in civil court. North America is just so litigous, everyone needs their behinds covered, up to and including being able to demonstrate ‘due diligence’ should someone be injured or killed.

- Paul

 

[crs1026]

Two other observations: being double ended, the iOn cars have a horn at both ends. The two are wired together - so when the driver uses the horn, for those at the rear of the tram it sounds like a car behind the tram is honking at us.
Also amusing to hear operator using the external PA to give it to motorists in the way.
- Paul