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Waterloo Region Transit Developments (ION LRT, new terminal, GRT buses)

KevinT said:
Unwelcome, but not totally unexpected:

Kitchener Today: LRT delayed until spring 2019

The full report to the region is at:

https://calendar.regionofwaterloo.ca/Council/Detail/2018-11-06-1030-Planning-and-Works-Committee/Late Starter - November 6, 2018.pdf

Edit to add: It's maddening that Bombardier gets the full blame again, as they only received the first pieces of the region's Specialized / Free Issue Equipment for installation at the beginning of the summer. How is it their fault that The Region / GrandLinq / Metrolinx didn't have the sourcing for this stuff figured out in time for it to be designed in and installed as they were building the trains?
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Good god, the race to the bottom between Ottawa and KW continues
 
rbt said:
That's 50% of the reason senior management likes to outsource (in tech at least). It gives them someplace to point that isn't themselves or staff they oversee directly.
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That excuse gets old however when people prefer things to be made in Canada.
 
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^ I've to to disagree somewhat on "giving LRT a bad name". Let's flip this over for a second, (and admitting that *aspects* of acquisition have and do give LRTs a black eye, unfairly)..how many projects, *from out of them all* actually happen when promised and on budget? They are the rare exception, rather than the rule.

ION, O-Train and others may be late, but they still represent best practice in this part of the world. ION especially, probably because of the vids posted, really impresses me in a number of ways, not least how the vehicles just glide along apparently effortlessly and agile and smooth. Toronto streetcars have also come a long way, but one can really see the difference in the vids with the LRTs. I just hope Crosstown is as impressive, if not more.
 
steveintoronto said:
^ I've to to disagree somewhat on "giving LRT a bad name". Let's flip this over for a second, (and admitting that *aspects* of acquisition have and do give LRTs a black eye, unfairly)..how many projects, *from out of them all* actually happen when promised and on budget? They are the rare exception, rather than the rule.

ION, O-Train and others may be late, but they still represent best practice in this part of the world. ION especially, probably because of the vids posted, really impresses me in a number of ways, not least how the vehicles just glide along apparently effortlessly and agile and smooth. Toronto streetcars have also come a long way, but one can really see the difference in the vids with the LRTs. I just hope Crosstown is as impressive, if not more.
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whoever knows better feel free to enlighten, but these guys have had over a year to figure this out. Why is this taking almost 2 years to work out a relatively simple system vs other much more complex rail projects around the world?
God beijing to shanghai hsr was built and opened in 3 freakn years! They dont need 10000 labourers to do testing.
 
What's in this grandlinq equipment anyway? Bombardier claims each train has to be torn down and rebuilt as soon as it arrives in KW
 
cplchanb said:
God beijing to shanghai hsr was built and opened in 3 freakn years!
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China's high-speed railway had almost 170 problems
China’s high-speed railways suffered 168 glitches in July, the month that saw at least 40 people killed when two bullet trains collided in the south of the country.

By Malcolm Moore, Shanghai
2:21PM BST 05 Sep 2011

An internal report by the Railways ministry has revealed a long list of problems, including some trains losing “traction control” because of “manufacturing quality problems”.
The ministry said that 106 out of the 168 glitches were caused “by design and manufacturing quality problems” with its rolling stock.
Four separate train manufacturers all produced trains with problems, the ministry said. The report was an internal notice to local railway officials and train manufacturers, urging a thorough overhaul of their processes. It was then picked up by the official China Daily newspaper.
The revelations will cast further doubt on China’s high-speed rail project ahead of the findings later this month (SEPT) of an official investigation into the crash outside Wenzhou.
In the immediate aftermath, officials said the crash had been caused by a lightning strike robbing one train of power and then a signalling error which led to a second train shunting it off the tracks and into the valley below.
In the wake of the disaster, a further 54 high-speed trains were recalled from the Beijing to Shanghai line because of safety concerns.
High-speed trains have also had their speed reduced for safety reasons.
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https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wo...gh-speed-railway-had-almost-170-problems.html

I'd be very careful what you wish for...
 
While in Ottawa it seems our consortium can't get the stations done, it does seem like having the trains assembled on site was a wise decision. Except for losing some parts for the last two vehicles the whole thing went way smoother than things for the TTC, Metrolinx, or Ion with the flexities
 
Kyle Campbell said:
Good god, the race to the bottom between Ottawa and KW continues
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We should know soon what Ottawa's timeline is for service launch. But I am pretty optimistic that they'll launch sometime in Feb.

Also, Ottawa's "LRT" is substantially different from Waterloo's LRT. The former is basically a light metro system. The entire thing is an exclusive, fully segregated and grade separated ROW. Nothing close to what Waterloo built. Having delays on Ottawa's project should have been somewhat expected. Stage 2 is far less complicated on construction. Let's see how they do on that one.

Streety McCarface said:
It's giving LRT a really bad name,
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I don't get where people get this. These aren't extraordinary delays for transit projects. Why would people specifically ascribe them to a type of technology?

Streety McCarface said:
which could spell huge trouble for iON phase 2, Hamilton LRT, Hurontario, EELRT, Finch West, Eglinton West, Jane, and others.
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I doubt it. Ultimately, local demands drive the need for those projects. Delays elsewhere don't change demands or the needs for those projects.
 
steveintoronto said:
^ I've to to disagree somewhat on "giving LRT a bad name". Let's flip this over for a second, (and admitting that *aspects* of acquisition have and do give LRTs a black eye, unfairly)..how many projects, *from out of them all* actually happen when promised and on budget? They are the rare exception, rather than the rule.

ION, O-Train and others may be late, but they still represent best practice in this part of the world. ION especially, probably because of the vids posted, really impresses me in a number of ways, not least how the vehicles just glide along apparently effortlessly and agile and smooth. Toronto streetcars have also come a long way, but one can really see the difference in the vids with the LRTs. I just hope Crosstown is as impressive, if not more.
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It doesn't matter if they represent the best practices in the world. Here in Waterloo, there's a significant base of individuals who absolutely hate the LRT, and their base is only growing larger because of the fact that bombardier and grandlinq can't seem to get their sh!t together.

I'm finding a lot of problems with the iON LRT, particularly along the GEXR Elmira Sub. There should have been provisions to include a bus looping facility at the Northfield stop, speeds along the segregated ROW should not be limited to 40 km/h, especially since it's separated from traffic, the bus terminal at UW hasn't commenced construction and won't serve University Avenue buses (which is a huge disincentive of using the LRT), there are already signs of wheel flat on the LRVs, many of the stations don't have heaters, and there weren't provisions for a McCormick stop along the line. I'm honestly concerned for the LRT's ridership given these issues.

kEiThZ said:
I don't get where people get this. These aren't extraordinary delays for transit projects. Why would people specifically ascribe them to a type of technology?

I doubt it. Ultimately, local demands drive the need for those projects. Delays elsewhere don't change demands or the needs for those projects.
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Ottawa is different, yes, but Waterloo's project isn't nearly as complicated as any other light rail project in the country. Half of it was built along underutilized freight ROWs, with the other half street running. It involved no tunnels, no significant bridge/viaduct work, no new ROW construction/expropriation (on street ROW being the exception), or any other problems we tend to see with larger projects like RER or subway extensions.

So for a small LRT line that has cut corners in every possible way to inconvenience the fewest people, cost the least amount of money, and require the least amount of infrastructure, one and a half years is pretty bad. To put it in perspective, the percentage of scheduled construction/testing to actual construction/testing, Waterloo's LRT is currently 37.5% (1.5+ year delay for a 4 year project). Compare this to the TYSSE (which gets a really bad rep for delays), which was 28.5% (2 year delay for a 7 year project). The Waterloo delay wasn't due to technical challenges building the infrastructure, rather, incompetence on bombardier's behalf of building the vehicles. It is an extraordinary delay for a transit project because the delay is not caused by a typical issue.

There arguably wasn't a need for the iON LRT, rather, a strong desire for it. I supported the project for many reasons, but to imply that all projects are based on demand is a little far fetched. I could argue that there is a demand to expand the streetcar network, build the DRL, replace some heavy bus lines with LRT/subway lines, and they will still see criticism and disdain from everywhere for reasons such as costs, distain for the technology, the delays that will ensue, construction inconveniences, and inconveniences for individuals (especially for drivers) when the system is up and running.
 
So ION's completion date is a few months late.

After delays, cost overruns, and tragedy, a subway to ... - Toronto Star
https://www.thestar.com › News › GTA › Transit & Commuting
Dec 16, 2017 - The $3.2-billion project extends the subway network outside of ... After delays, cost overruns, and tragedy, a subway to Vaughan is complete.

Eglinton Crosstown to open a year later than expected - Toronto Star
https://www.thestar.com › News › GTA › Transit & Commuting
Sep 24, 2015 - The $5.3-billion Eglinton Crosstown LRT — believed to be the largest infrastructure project in Ontario history — will open a year later than ...

TTC board approves another $150M to complete delayed Spadina ...
https://www.toronto.com/.../5528818-ttc-board-approves-another-150m-to-complete-...
Mar 27, 2015 - The TTC board held its collective nose and supported staff ... Toronto York SpadinaSubway Extension (TYSSE) officially delayed by another ...
Delays in Toronto subway could prompt handover to consulting ...
https://www.canadianconsultingengineer.com/.../delays...toronto-subway.../10033999...
Mar 24, 2015 - Trouble erupted in Toronto last week when the news that the latest extension to the city's subway system was going to be completed years later ...

Welcome to the real world.
[...]
The region plans to go after Bombardier — which was contracted to build the region's 14 light rail vehicles — for costs associated with the late vehicle delivery.

Last December, the region reported the total added costs are pegged at $50 million — putting the project budget at $868 million. The province kicked in another $25 million to offset the added costs.

It's anticipated that the schedule changes and associated costs can all be accommodated within the approved rapid transit funding strategy, according to the report presented to council on Tuesday.
[...]
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https://www.therecord.com/news-story/9019007-lrt-delayed-until-spring/
 
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