Waterfront Transit Reset Phase 1 Study

[DSC]

As expected, Steve Munro has a very good walk-through of the proposals. See: https://stevemunro.ca/2019/03/05/waterfront-transit-reset-the-union-station-connection/

 

[dowlingm]

Well in that case, loop it through the new GO Bus Station on the south side. Concept stands, and even better.

New GO Bus Terminal Slated for Massive 45-141 Bay Development | UrbanToronto

Ivanhoé Cambridge and Metrolinx have officially announced what UrbanToronto leaked back in August, that a new Bus Terminal would be built at 45 Bay Street, integrated with a dramatic new office complex for Downtown Toronto.

urbantoronto.ca

That project is way beyond crayoning in a streetcar loop.

A 4-5 year shutdown of the streetcar tunnel - or put another way, termination of streetcar options east of Spadina Loop - is to my mind utter madness. Maybe it's time to look seriously at origin/destination data from Union loop and see if we can relieve demand by increasing service or tweaking the routing on services like 121.

Filling in the slip at the bottom of Yonge Street seems like an imperative to me, if only to provide a loop/layover for an increased 97, maybe an extended 75 too, with a second exit from the ferry dock onto the bus stop.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

That project is way beyond crayoning in a streetcar loop.

A 4-5 year shutdown of the streetcar tunnel - or put another way, termination of streetcar options east of Spadina Loop - is to my mind utter madness. Maybe it's time to look seriously at origin/destination data from Union loop and see if we can relieve demand by increasing service or tweaking the routing on services like 121.

4-5 years business as usual - make it 24/7/365 construction instead.

AoD

 

[Northern Light]

4-5 years business as usual - make it 24/7/365 construction instead.

AoD

Your proposal is a wise one, but even without it, there is absolutely no need for that length of closure. You can add width for the new platforms/tracks without interfering with existing operations (for the most part)

There would be two points at which closures would be required, briefly, during some initial demolition of tunnel walls, and then again at the end of work when new track would have to be tied in to existing.

Otherwise, the work areas near Union loop are not on the existing ROW or the existing platform.

The work At Queen's Quay is a bit more complex in terms of intersecting with existing, but a large amount can be achieved during operations.

The building of a new underground pedestrian passage would require some closure time, as would opening the existing tunnel to the east, and then later track work tie-ins.

There is a mentality in this City of in-the-box, linear thinking that must be challenged.

Total required closure time in days is less than 1 year if work is done 24/7 (and that is non-contiguous), meaning the total project might be 3 years.

Service replacement during construction will be a challenge, but is also very do-able. It simply requires an open mind that everything is on the table as to how that's achieved.

 

[robmausser]

Thank Jeebus the streetcar option is being chosen. Sanity prevails for once in this city.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Thank Jeebus the streetcar option is being chosen. Sanity prevails for once in this city.

Don't count your luck yet - it still has to go through Exec and Council, nevermind actually getting funding.

AoD

 

[raptor]

Don't count your luck yet - it still has to go through Exec and Council, nevermind actually getting funding.

AoD

If all of SmartTrack, SSE and Waterfront Transit go to Exec and Council at the same time as Steve Munro predicts, I'd be surprised if WT Transit will be debated at all and should pass quietly. The other 2 big ones will steal the show.

 

[thettctransitfanatic]

If all of SmartTrack, SSE and Waterfront Transit go to Exec and Council at the same time as Steve Munro predicts, I'd be surprised if WT Transit will be debated at all and should pass quietly. The other 2 big ones will steal the show.

I'd be surprised if they didn't approve WT transit

 

[dowlingm]

According to Steve Munro, the loop needs to be dug down four feet because it loses fire code grandfathering. The existing tunnel is frequently subject to water ingress issues. This is no one year project, guys. Just look next door at Union Station's excavation.

 

[thettctransitfanatic]

According to Steve Munro, the loop needs to be dug down four feet because it loses fire code grandfathering. The existing tunnel is frequently subject to water ingress issues. This is no one year project, guys. Just look next door at Union Station's excavation.

Well, you never know. Projects like this aren't a picnic in an park.

 

[steveintoronto]

That project is way beyond crayoning in a streetcar loop.

A 4-5 year shutdown of the streetcar tunnel - or put another way, termination of streetcar options east of Spadina Loop - is to my mind utter madness.

You do realize that I'm referring to the QQE LRT? The whole point of using the new GO bus station facility is to completely avoid the present Spadina Loop. Leave it as-is save for superficial tweaks.

And my suggestion was surface run up or down Bay, through the GO bus terminal, and up or down Yonge to complete the loop. If something more complicated is needed for the future, it can be built then. Meantime, a surface stop at Bay and QQ if the loop is clockwise will allow westbound through transfer from the QQE LRT to the QQW one without going through either of the loops.

 

[CapitalSeven]

4 to 5 years is the construction impact, but not necessarily the total shutdown. As noted in Munro's piece, there are ideas for getting some service going across QQ prior to shutting down the tunnel. And the outer parts of the new Union loop could likely be started before the whole thing had to close.

For the period of closure, what about a King-Cherry-QQ-Spadina loop, if even only at weekends?

 

[smallspy]

For the period of closure, what about a King-Cherry-QQ-Spadina loop, if even only at weekends?

That would require the Cherry Street Tower to be moved, and the widening of the Cherry Street underpass. While they're already aware of those things and their need, I don't think that they're likely to be done in time for any work at Union Station.

Dan

 

[W. K. Lis]

From link.

Should they go with enlarging the streetcar loop at Union, they should build the eastern Queens Quay extension first. With a temporary loop at Cherry Street or vicinity. Then as they are building the enlarged underground loop, they can have temporary platforms before the western portal to allow for transfers to the 6 BAY bus or a shuttle bus to get to UNION Station, whenever to get construction access to the existing streetcar subway.

 

[Leo_Chan]

From link.

Should they go with enlarging the streetcar loop at Union, they should build the eastern Queens Quay extension first. With a temporary loop at Cherry Street or vicinity. Then as they are building the enlarged underground loop, they can have temporary platforms before the western portal to allow for transfers to the 6 BAY bus or a shuttle bus to get to UNION Station, whenever to get construction access to the existing streetcar subway.

So build the underground wye and east portal before tackling bay and union loop?