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Waterfront Transit Reset Phase 1 Study

How should Toronto connect the East and West arms of the planned waterfront transit with downtown?

  • Expand the existing Union loop

    Votes: 206 71.3%

  • Build a Western terminus

    Votes: 13 4.5%

  • Route service along Queen's Quay with pedestrian/cycle/bus connection to Union

    Votes: 31 10.7%

  • Connect using existing Queen's Quay/Union Loop and via King Street

    Votes: 22 7.6%

  • Other

    Votes: 17 5.9%
  • Total voters
    289
44 North said:
Sorry, why bypass cars at the platform? Or is it that we'll be subdividing the westbound and eastbound platforms for the different services so it's actually *four* platforms - two on each side. As in: w/b Exhibition, w/b Spadina on one side; e/b Cherry, e/b Villiers on the other side. I guess this loop will be more dynamic and complex service-wise than I first thought.
Click to expand...
There has been a crossover between platforms since 2008.

This allows TTC to either use one side for off loading with the other being use for loading. It also allow to have east line on one side and the west on the other..

The loop expansion is only good for today, but will never meet the ridership loads 20 years out, let alone 10 years once done.
 
Breaking: Sidewalk Labs is proposing to help finance the Waterfront LRT to kickstart its project. Link.

As a side note, I love how Doug Ford wants the private sector to step up to help build subways, but it looks like an LRT/streetcar will get the treatment first.

A core component of this is a concept to help finance the Waterfront LRT — which would be operated by a public agency — years, if not decades, sooner than it would otherwise. This would unlock the potential of the Eastern Waterfront, and the jobs, housing, and economic growth that will come with it. (Check out this report by the Waterfront BIA on the potential benefits of accelerated Waterfront LRT.)
Click to expand...
 
Here you go and have your say, as I will be out of the country that day

Date: Monday, March 4, 2019

Time: 6:30 P.M. to 8:00 P.M. (presentation at 7:00 P.M.)

Location: Brigantine Room and Marilyn Brewer Community Space, Harbourfront Centre (235 Queens Quay West)
 
Here is more info on the March 4 meeting:

Background

The existing underground streetcar loop at Union Station and connecting tunnel to Queens Quay, constructed in 1990, is inadequate to serve current and future transit ridership needs. The loop accommodates a single narrow platform for alighting and a second for boarding, but both are served by the same single track. A streetcar loop expansion concept at Union Station was approved in 2010 as part of the East Bayfront Transit EA, but has remained as an unfunded project.

In January 2018, as part of approval of the Waterfront Transit Network Plan, City Council directed staff to undertake a focused feasibility study for transit options to link Union Station to the existing and approved light rail transit lines west and east along Queens Quay respectively.
A consultant team (led by Arup Canada) is assisting the City with the focused feasibility study (Union Station - Queens Quay Transit Link Study). The study, as per previous work on the Waterfront Transit "Reset" Network Plan, is a partnership including the City, TTC, and Waterfront Toronto.

Options Overview

Options to expand or repurpose the approximately 540 metre underground streetcar tunnel and stations between Union Station and Queens Quay and Bay Street have been narrowed down to the following:

  • Streetcar Loop Expansion: Expansion of the existing streetcar loop terminal at Union Station allowing increased capacity and future streetcar service both east and west of Bay Street along Queens Quay to route through Union Station (essentially the EA-approved concept with some modification to infrastructure and service plans). The current option includes:
  • 4 streetcar platforms at Union Station, two each on either side of the loop, including bypass tracks for all platforms, and allowing separation for boarding and alighting;
  • Some expansion of the existing Queens Quay/Ferry Docks Station to allow double berthing of streetcars;
  • Underground streetcar track connection to Queens Quay East with portal to surface either east or west of Yonge Street;
For more information, visit toronto.ca/waterfronttransit or email waterfronttransit@toronto.ca
  • Underground east-west through track at Queens Quay and Bay Street to allow flexibility for future streetcar service bypass of Union Station;
  • Improved passenger connectivity to adjacent transit, developments, and public realm at the Union Station and Queens Quay/Ferry Docks Station.
Automated People Mover (APM) Option: Repurposing of the existing streetcar tunnel and stations under Bay Street with driverless, cable propelled vehicular system connecting Union Station to an east-west LRT along Queens Quay. The current option includes:
  • Separate, individually propelled, automated systems within each bore of the existing tunnel under Bay Street;
  • 3 platforms at both Union Station and Queens Quay/Bay Station; a common central platform to facilitate boarding to each vehicle/track and side platforms to facilitate alighting from each vehicle/track
  • A new east-west streetcar station (60m platforms) underground at Queens Quay and Bay Street where riders can transfer underground between the streetcar service and the people mover vehicles;
  • Streetcar portal on Queens Quay East to surface either east or west of Yonge Street;
  • Improved passenger connectivity to adjacent transit, developments, and public realm at the Union Station and Queens Quay/Ferry Docks Station.
 
This APM infutiates me so much. The city is going out of their way to eliminate the transfer at Kennedy for the good people of Scarborough, but have no issues ADDING a transfer on Queens Quay. If all this is just an attempt to justify a proper streetcar loop rebuild at Union, then fine; otherwise, it's a travesty. Damn penny pinchers.
 
raptor said:
This APM infutiates me so much. The city is going out of their way to eliminate the transfer at Kennedy for the good people of Scarborough, but have no issues ADDING a transfer on Queens Quay. If all this is just an attempt to justify a proper streetcar loop rebuild at Union, then fine; otherwise, it's a travesty. Damn penny pinchers.
Click to expand...

"Lets save a bit of money to watch people vehemently reject a mode of transit because its too complicated and cumbersome. Ridership is down 50% but we saved 10%!" - City of Toronto logic.
 
Happy to report that the prefer option for Monday Night Meeting will be the streetcar loop expansion. Down side is the fact it will be close for 4-5 years to rebuilt it. The people mover (PM) was to be 3-4 years. The very down side is the fact its in the city 10 year budget plan. This mean we may not see the loop expansion until 2030.

A lot depends on what funding the city can get from the fed's as well the ranking of various projects going after this money.

No real winner when it came to cost between both options.

Had to straighten out the City when they try to push the numbers of riders using the PM compare to streetcars on Bay. I stated that you were moving the congestion from Union to the new QQ station because streetcars are caught up along the route which would be the same if they use the current tunnel. Sure, the PM will move more riders since it goes end to end with no congestion, but only help to backup access getting to/from the QQ platform.

Something surface at tonight meeting and that is the relocation of the east portal to just west of Yonge St. To deal with the removal of the mess in front of The Westin Harbour Castle, part of the current slip would have to be built over it or fill in to get cars and trucks to it in/out of The Westin Harbour Castle. Traffic light intersection.

Numbers been used for the loop by 2041 was 4-8,000 at peak time and less than the 2008-2010 EA. Good for today, but not for 2050, if not sooner.

Lots of talk about building Pathways all over the place.

Someone suggested building a temporary loop where the new York St Park is to go in.

There will be plus 35 bridges on both sides of the rail corridor over Bay St connecting to Union Station and CIBC towers.
 
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Thanks for heads-up Drum!
drum118 said:
Down side is the fact it will be close for 4-5 years to rebuilt it....The very down side is the fact its in the city 10 year budget plan. This mean we may not see the loop expansion until 2030.
Click to expand...
"World Class City"...in theory, not in practice.
 
drum118 said:
Happy to report that the prefer option for Monday Night Meeting will be the streetcar loop expansion. Down side is the fact it will be close for 4-5 years to rebuilt it.
Click to expand...

That 4-5 years closure is a concern, isn't it? Queens Quay West can be served by buses in the interim, but those buses will be terribly slow.

In view of the above, kind of wondering if there exists an option of serving the Don Mouth developments with a light rail line in the Gardiner / Lakeshore corridor.

Something like this:
- Both Gardiner and Lakeshore east of Yonge are rebuilt. The elevated Gardiner stays, and takes all through traffic. Lakeshore is replaced with a road that serves local buildings only.
- The light rail line goes under Gardiner, from Cherry Street to the vicinity of Yonge.
- That light rail line uses double-sided cars, hence no loop is needed.
- The terminus is either at the surface level under Gardiner near Yonge, and connected to Union by a tunnel; or, the terminus is underground and a bit closer to Union.
- The existing Queens Quay West route and loop are undisturbed, hence no shutdown.
- Queens Quay East will still be served by a bus. It is a short street, just from Yonge to Parliament, thus a bus should handle the load, provided that the more massive Don Mouth developments are served by a separate light rail line.
 
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