Waterfront Transit Reset Phase 1 Study

[drum118]

4 to 5 years is the construction impact, but not necessarily the total shutdown. As noted in Munro's piece, there are ideas for getting some service going across QQ prior to shutting down the tunnel. And the outer parts of the new Union loop could likely be started before the whole thing had to close.

For the period of closure, what about a King-Cherry-QQ-Spadina loop, if even only at weekends?

You can't use the Cherry St Loop by the QQE for at least 2030 and beyond do to the fact there are no plans as what will be built between Parliament and Cherry St at this time. Until the land owners come up with a plan, a new QQE extension can't be looked at even though its in the master plan.

As noted above and I have said this before, the Cherry St Underpass has to be dealt with, as it will pinch point for any extension. There are 3 options to deal with it and how do they fit into Metrolinx upgrading the corridor in this area. Option I: a new underpass wide enough to match the existing road to the north. Cost was about $50 million in 2008 dollars. Option II: Punch holes in the embankment for the new ROW and sidewalk/cycle path. Option III: punch holes for sidewalk/cycle path, with the streetcars using the northbound lanes and traffic using the southbound in both direction.

The Current Cherry St Tower is to be relocated either this year or next year at this time.

At the same time, an EA has to be done for the Commissioner line going to the Barns and that is scheduled to start late this year. Current plans don't show the Cherry St Line going over the mouth of the Don since there is no money for that bridge or the loop at the shipping channel.

My recommendation last week was to rebuilt the T after the eastern section was built and this applies to both options.If the loop expansion is to take place, the the rebuilding of the existing loop will take place with the rebuilding of the T on a 7/24 base.

 

[DSC]

Thank Jeebus the streetcar option is being chosen. Sanity prevails for once in this city.

The streetcar option was actually chosen many years ago in the EA and we all know how far THAT got us. Of course, it's the best option but politicians have managed to screw this up for a decade and I am, unfortunately, not optimistic that they will not do so again.

 

[raptor]

The streetcar option was actually chosen many years ago in the EA and we all know how far THAT got us. Of course, it's the best option but politicians have managed to screw this up for a decade and I am, unfortunately, not optimistic that they will not do so again.

Wasn't Jennifer Keesmaat behind this "reset"?

 

[rbt]

Wasn't Jennifer Keesmaat behind this "reset"?

Yes, but I don't believe she expected the results to change. There was a lot of pushback on the plans at that time due to cost including from Waterfront Toronto executives; Do Nothing had quietly become the preferred option under Ford.

 

[raptor]

Yes, but I don't believe she expected the results to change. There was a lot of pushback on the plans at that time due to cost including from Waterfront Toronto executives; Do Nothing had become the preferred option.

Right, but we are back to the same spot prior to the reset. I can't believe cost estimates have decreased since then.

 

[rbt]

Right, but we are back to the same spot prior to the reset. I can't believe cost estimates have decreased since then.

Yup, but I suspect that is still further along than if we continued pushing the old plans. Democracy and consensus building is quite expensive at times.

 

[thettctransitfanatic]

Do Nothing had quietly become the preferred option under Ford.

Obviously. Ford doesn't ride nor care about the streetcar system.

 

[Rainforest]

4 to 5 years is the construction impact, but not necessarily the total shutdown. As noted in Munro's piece, there are ideas for getting some service going across QQ prior to shutting down the tunnel. And the outer parts of the new Union loop could likely be started before the whole thing had to close.

For the period of closure, what about a King-Cherry-QQ-Spadina loop, if even only at weekends?

If it is not possible to run in a full loop due to the Cherry Street Underpass not being ready .. another option is to simply re-route the 510 further east along QQE while it cannot access Union. Of course, that would require a loop somewhere in the east, south of the rail corridor.

Not an ideal option for all trips, but it least that would retain a streetcar connection from the central Waterfront up Spadina.

 

[nfitz]

Surely a temporary loop somewhere along the alignment isn't particularly expensive.

 

[44 North]

The Current Cherry St Tower is to be relocated either this year or next year at this time.

Ok interesting, didn't know there was a set date for the tower relocation. Thought it was one of the many things mentioned then tossed aside. But good to see movement.

The streetcar option was actually chosen many years ago in the EA and we all know how far THAT got us. Of course, it's the best option but politicians have managed to screw this up for a decade and I am, unfortunately, not optimistic that they will not do so again.

I still think the actual "best" option would be to offer more grade-separation east of Bay making Union more of a through station. Possibly with a changeup for bidirectional LRVs with doors on both side. This is kinda what I wanted to come out of the Reset, or if we chose to hit the snooze and reset again. Though best not to rock the boat with costlier and more complex options, so yes the actual best option is the exact same as what we had +10yrs ago.

 

[smallspy]

The Current Cherry St Tower is to be relocated either this year or next year at this time.

Next year.

But that doesn't change the fact that the plan for the additional spans for Cherry Street under the railway corridor are still many years off in the future.

Dan

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

Sidewalk Labs could pull out of Quayside project if transit isn’t built, CEO says

Dan Doctoroff of Sidewalk Labs told The Canadian Press in an interview that his company may lose interest in the project if transit to the area isn’t built.

“At the end of the day, if there is no light rail through the project, then the project is not interesting to us, to be perfectly honest,” he said.

“I think if we ultimately get to a place — and we are by no means there and we remain optimistic — but get to a place where we conclude that achieving the lofty ambitions that we and Waterfront Toronto and their government constituents have established for this project are not possible, then obviously we would be foolish to continue.”

 

[robmausser]

Sidewalk Labs could pull out of Quayside project if transit isn’t built, CEO says

Ok, then how much does Google want to help pay for the transit? You want it, pay for it.

 

[dowlingm]

Surely a temporary loop somewhere along the alignment isn't particularly expensive.

There are multiple city docs which refer to an interim loop at Parliament.

E.g. https://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2014/te/bgrd/backgroundfile-72599.pdf

 

[dowlingm]

Ok, then how much does Google want to help pay for the transit? You want it, pay for it.

Sidewalk thinking this may not happen for them and are looking for a scapegoat ("no it isn't that we completely mishandled public comms - it's that there wasn't a streetcar")