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Waterfront Transit Reset Phase 1 Study

How should Toronto connect the East and West arms of the planned waterfront transit with downtown?

  • Expand the existing Union loop

    Votes: 203 72.2%
  • Build a Western terminus

    Votes: 12 4.3%
  • Route service along Queen's Quay with pedestrian/cycle/bus connection to Union

    Votes: 30 10.7%
  • Connect using existing Queen's Quay/Union Loop and via King Street

    Votes: 20 7.1%
  • Other

    Votes: 16 5.7%

  • Total voters
    281
Which is exactly why I dont plan to waste time listening to anything that's said…

I couldn't even get the phone number or Webinar ID they sent out in the paper mail to actually connect. No idea if they changed the info last minute but neither number connects to anything.
 
View attachment 466763
This is one of the diagrams that was presented back in 2021 (I'm not sure if this is the newest version, I just looked up Steve Munro's article). It clearly shows room for 2 streetcars and an emergency crossing in the middle (the video shows the crossing on the southern end).
As I noted, it is correct for 2021, but not today. As shown last week and tonight, its only a single car to save money and defer it to some future date when it can be fully upgraded correctly. Oh, great another shut down of the loop again while doing work as there is money to do it.

What was said last week regarding 2 elevators was opposite to what was said last week.

Lots of lip services last week as well tonight.
 
I couldn't even get the phone number or Webinar ID they sent out in the paper mail to actually connect. No idea if they changed the info last minute but neither number connects to anything.
200 other people were on line for the meeting and had no issues logging in by the internet.
 
Was there any talk about building the Queens Quay East bit first, followed by the Queens Quay portals, followed by Union Station construction?

(As to minimise the length of time that Queens Quay West is without streetcar service - and running streetcars on QQE as soon as possible, given the length of time that Union station construction will take...)
 
Was there any talk about building the Queens Quay East bit first, followed by the Queens Quay portals, followed by Union Station construction?

(As to minimise the length of time that Queens Quay West is without streetcar service - and running streetcars on QQE as soon as possible, given the length of time that Union station construction will take...)
Yes, the aim is to run east-west service from Spadina to Cherry/Villiers before they finish the Union Station part. Of course, they need to deal with the ramps up and down on QQE @ Bay first and that will not be too speedy either. I do not think they plan to run straight through that area on the surface as an interim. Others may know more.
 
I believe the Queens Quay expansion was planned when 11 Bay was still scheduled to get redeveloped which would have reduced a lot of the costs involved for it. It makes sense with that project being sidelined now to not move forward with it, and as others have said, it should reduce some of the sticker shock of the tunnel expansion.
 
Yes, the aim is to run east-west service from Spadina to Cherry/Villiers before they finish the Union Station part. Of course, they need to deal with the ramps up and down on QQE @ Bay first and that will not be too speedy either. I do not think they plan to run straight through that area on the surface as an interim. Others may know more.
Current thinking for TTC is to get the e-w line up and running sooner than later while working on the loop. Once the loop is done, all service will start and stop at Union with no run through which is a huge mistake. It defeat what was proposed by TTC going back as far as 2008, let alone 2004 where 5 different types of service would be seen on QQ and at Union once QQE was fully built out including run through.

It was noted early work would get underway in 2024 that will require to relocate existing utilities.

The infilling the Yonge Slip has to happen first before work can start on the portals and ramps. What I have proposed for construction of the portals is the fast way to get service backup running for 509/510 once service is stop for them as well shortening the length of time they are replace by buses.
 
I believe the Queens Quay expansion was planned when 11 Bay was still scheduled to get redeveloped which would have reduced a lot of the costs involved for it. It makes sense with that project being sidelined now to not move forward with it, and as others have said, it should reduce some of the sticker shock of the tunnel expansion.
QQE was approved in 2010 long before 11 Bay surface.

Upgrading QQ Station was help when 11 Bay was proposed. 11 bay was to be a 2nd entrance only. Even then, it was a failure
 
For those who did not watch last night meeting on the latest update, here is the Presentation

If you want to watch the 2 hour presentation and Q & A, here is it.
 
Direct Link to Steve Munro's post on his blog about this:


And renders of new Union Loop and Station interface:

1680889137856.png

1680889170774.png


1680889196231.png


I like the use of colour here:


1680889226617.png


1680889248385.png
 
Note that if you've read the full presentation linked above in @drum118 's post...........there is a survey seeking your input.


My take:

1) The north-west entrance to Union should be built initially, this is both meeting existing and projected capacity/demand but also a matter of saving money and avoiding perpetual construction here.

2) The Union NB platform to which the loop is linked can be severely overcrowded, without allowing for scope-creep, the project designers should have a quick overview to ascertain whether there is any room for platform expansion in the area adjacent to the loop project. If there is, then at the very least appropriate future proofing should be considered, and not building anything that would conflict w/said project.

3) While I agree that that the Ferry Dock/Queen's Quay station work should, ideally, be coordinated with any project at 11 Bay, I am concerned that its capacity constraints and poor vertical circulation may be dangerous even under existing conditions let alone with demand growth. Consideration should be given to anything that can be reasonably achieved at this time.

4) The proposed streetscape and public realm stuff on Queen's Quay and Cherry is excellent and there should be no value-engineering of any kind!
 
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Note that if you've read the full presentation linked above in @drum118 's post...........there is a survey seeking your input.


My take:

1) The north-west entrance to Union should be built initially, this is both meeting existing and projected capacity/demand but also a matter of saving money and avoiding perpetual construction here.

2) The Union NB platform to which the loop is linked can be severely overcrowded, without allowing for scope-creep, the project designers should have a quick overview to ascertain whether there is any room for platform expansion in the area adjacent to the loop project. If there is, then at the very least appropriate future proofing should be considered, and not building anything that would conflict w/said project.

3) While I agree that that the Ferry Dock/Queen's Quay station work should, ideally, be coordinated with any project at 11 Bay, I am concerned that its capacity constraints and poor vertical circulation may be dangerous even under existing conditions let alone with demand growth. Consideration should be given to anything that can be reasonably achieved at this time.

4) The proposed streetscape and public realm stuff on Queen's Quay and Cherry is excellent and there should be no value-engineering of any kind!
You are right about QQ station as I did you got to be kidding when I saw it last week as well being reduce to what is there now than the plan 2 car per platform. It will never meet the demand that is required for this station and even the 11 Bay entrance did not help much. Lack of elevators is a big issue and saying the new elevator will carry 20% more riders is a joke. Only take one breakdown to cause a huge mess for everyone.

When I first saw the plan for Union Loop in 2007, I said then that its only good for todays needs and the next 10-15 years, but will never handle the ridership for the full build out as well the extensions and other service TTC was looking at to service the waterfront. TTC said the loop would be able to handle 12,000/hr, but was drop to 8,000 shortly after that. The density vision for the waterfront has triple and could be more from 2006 vision. With the new park coming on line next year, the demand to see it will cause a spike in ridership, let alone foot traffic, traffic and cycles that transit will be an issues for bus service until QQE goes into service for phase 1 when every that is.

Prefer to see larger trees planted than the small ones as they have die a quick life so far.

Cycles and pedestrian for intersections will remain an issue since a few of both groups not respect the rights of others. Then there is the pedestrians and the streetcar issue. All these issues can be found in other cities around the world.

Time to stop delay train and build the E-W line ASP and let TTC do Union when it has the fund to do it since its the lion share of the total cost. We can live without the Cherry St extension until ML cleans up their mess and will offer another option to service the new park. TTC has said in the past of running another line from Broadview to the waterfront and would be use as an e-w line for events at the CNE/EX..
 

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