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Waterfront Transit Reset Phase 1 Study

How should Toronto connect the East and West arms of the planned waterfront transit with downtown?

  • Expand the existing Union loop

    Votes: 172 73.2%
  • Build a Western terminus

    Votes: 10 4.3%
  • Route service along Queen's Quay with pedestrian/cycle/bus connection to Union

    Votes: 23 9.8%
  • Connect using existing Queen's Quay/Union Loop and via King Street

    Votes: 15 6.4%
  • Other

    Votes: 15 6.4%

  • Total voters
    235

drum118

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Okay 2018. 4 years that’s more like it.
Need to go back to 2008 when first proposed.

Current timetable to be completed is 2040.
 

syn

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Drastic improvement!

There are so many slides, I can't manage to do a 2-3 post effort here, so I would encourage anyone interested to follow the link above, posted by Alvin. That said, I will put a few in here.


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This is fantastic! For some time I was worried about what would happen across from the Distillery and the integration of transit, but it all seems to be coming together quite nicely.

I will admit, I have no idea what any of this has to do with Malaria.
 

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Sent to Stakeholder Group:

This message is to provide a brief update on the Waterfront East LRT.

Over the past several months since we last met, the project team has continued advancing the design of the project, including:
  • Area 1 (Bay Street): Undertaking a value engineering exercise to rationalize costs.
  • Area 2A (Queens Quay East focus area): Completed 30% design and costing.
  • Area 2B (Queens Quay East extension, Cherry Street to Distillery Loop focus area): Ongoing 30% design.
  • Cherry Street Transit underpass: Completed the evaluation for a transit underpass at Cherry Street and exploring alternative loop locations in the Port Lands.
  • The Transit Project Assessment is anticipated to commence in 2023
We expect to bring forward a project update as part of the city-wide transit report planned for the Executive Committee on June 8th.
 

44 North

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Sent to Stakeholder Group:

This message is to provide a brief update on the Waterfront East LRT.

Over the past several months since we last met, the project team has continued advancing the design of the project, including:
  • Area 1 (Bay Street): Undertaking a value engineering exercise to rationalize costs.
  • Area 2A (Queens Quay East focus area): Completed 30% design and costing.
  • Area 2B (Queens Quay East extension, Cherry Street to Distillery Loop focus area): Ongoing 30% design.
  • Cherry Street Transit underpass: Completed the evaluation for a transit underpass at Cherry Street and exploring alternative loop locations in the Port Lands.
  • The Transit Project Assessment is anticipated to commence in 2023
We expect to bring forward a project update as part of the city-wide transit report planned for the Executive Committee on June 8th.

Sorry out of the loop. What's this VE for Area 1? Isn't that what's been happening for over 10yrs now? Not tongue in cheek, I still believe there are ways to lower the costs, or at least keep costs neutral with better bang. Basically anything that doesn't require full scale loop rebuild.
 

drum118

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Sorry out of the loop. What's this VE for Area 1? Isn't that what's been happening for over 10yrs now? Not tongue in cheek, I still believe there are ways to lower the costs, or at least keep costs neutral with better bang. Basically anything that doesn't require full scale loop rebuild.
What was to take place 12 years ago is different today. You are now looking at a portal on the west side of Yonge and infilling the waterfront in place of a portal at Freeland. Then doing the work in 2 phases with Bay being done after there is a e-w line in place.

Union loop has to be fully rebuilt to handle 10,000 riders at peak time.
 

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Sorry out of the loop. What's this VE for Area 1? Isn't that what's been happening for over 10yrs now? Not tongue in cheek, I still believe there are ways to lower the costs, or at least keep costs neutral with better bang. Basically anything that doesn't require full scale loop rebuild.
The work on Bay Street and the actual Union Station loop (whether you are in or out of it :->) is being re-designed by the TTC. The current loop is very poorly designed to meet even current passenger volumes so I think there is little doubt that 'something' needs to be done to serve the future (larger) passenger volumes. WT is dealing with the rest of the project and there are details of their (already public) plans on their website.

1650638087164.png
 

CapitalSeven

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I believe the whole loop station also needs to be rebuilt lower due to fire safety regulations, so making any changes means changing everything.
 

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I believe the whole loop station also needs to be rebuilt lower due to fire safety regulations, so making any changes means changing everything.
Lots of useful info on Steve Munro's site, of course. This is from 2019. See: https://stevemunro.ca/2019/03/05/waterfront-transit-reset-the-union-station-connection/

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Two operational modes are possible:

  • Offload northbound, load southbound. In this scheme, the northbound berths would be used for offloading cars, and the crossover would allow cars to leapfrog each other. The southbound berths would be used for loading with one berth assigned to each route (waterfront east and west) and the crossovers used for cars to bypass each other. In this arrangement, the northbound double track is not, strictly, required as offloading activities are not route specific.
  • Dedicate the northbound berths to one route (say Waterfront east) and the southbound berths to the other (west). In this scheme, the crossovers are not strictly required because only one route would serve the platforms on either side of the station, and they would run through “express” on the inner track to bypass the other route’s platform.
There have doubtless been tweaks to this in the intervening years but.....
 

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Report coming to Executive next week: http://app.toronto.ca/tmmis/viewAgendaItemHistory.do?item=2022.EX33.2

Waterfront Transit Network

7. City Council direct the Executive Director, Transit Expansion Office to undertake a constructability review of the Union Station to Queens Quay Link and the East Bayfront LRT (the Waterfront East LRT) in consultation with the Chief Planner and Executive Director, City Planning, the TTC and Waterfront Toronto, to assess constructability and coordination risks with major infrastructure projects in the vicinity of the Waterfront East LRT alignment.

8. City Council direct the Executive Director, Transit Expansion Office in consultation with the Chief Planner and Executive Director, City Planning, the Toronto Transit Commission, and Waterfront Toronto, to report back to City Council in concert with reports on the Next Phase of Waterfront Revitalization anticipated in second quarter of 2023 with:

a. the recommended alignment and scope of the project based on ongoing work and the review outlined in Recommendation 7 above;

b. an updated cost estimate; and

c. a funding, financing and implementation strategy, including a phasing plan.

The Union Station to Queens Quay Link and the East Bayfront Light Rail Transit (referred to as the Waterfront East LRT (WELRT)) is a priority Waterfront Transit Network project. Since the last update to City Council in December 2020, the City, TTC and Waterfront Toronto have advanced the design for the WELRT to 30%. City staff, the TTC and Waterfront Toronto continue to undertake a value engineering exercise to inform design refinements and an updated cost estimate.

Additional work is required to assess constructability and coordination risks with other planned and in-progress major infrastructure projects in the vicinity of the WELRT alignment, such as the Ontario Line, GO Expansion On Corridor Works, and the Gardiner Expressway Rehabilitation projects. This report recommends that City Council direct staff to finalize design work underway and to undertake a constructability review of the WELRT in relation to these major infrastructure projects, and to report back in Q2 2023 in concert with reports that are expected on the Next Phase of Waterfront Revitalization. The report back on the WELRT will include the recommended scope, an updated cost estimate, and a funding, financing and implementation strategy, including a phasing plan prior to further advancing the design and TPAP.
 

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I just don't understand how it takes so god damn long to design this thing. I feel like every year we get a report to council along the lines of "direct staff to continue to design line", and that's been happening for like 4-5 years now.
I think the hold-up has been $$$$$ rather than planning. The planning has gone on for over 15 years (I think I went to my first meeting on it in 2004 or 2005) and Waterfront Toronto used to, proudly, talk of "Transit First".
 

robmausser

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I just don't understand how it takes so god damn long to design this thing. I feel like every year we get a report to council along the lines of "direct staff to continue to design line", and that's been happening for like 4-5 years now.

You know how in high school you would BS to a teacher that you had to do some extra work on a project but it was actually unnecessary and you were just trying to leverage more time for that project you didnt start? That, but with adults.
 

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