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Waterfront Transit Reset Phase 1 Study

How should Toronto connect the East and West arms of the planned waterfront transit with downtown?

  • Expand the existing Union loop

    Votes: 206 71.3%

  • Build a Western terminus

    Votes: 13 4.5%

  • Route service along Queen's Quay with pedestrian/cycle/bus connection to Union

    Votes: 31 10.7%

  • Connect using existing Queen's Quay/Union Loop and via King Street

    Votes: 22 7.6%

  • Other

    Votes: 17 5.9%
  • Total voters
    289
Towered said:
Sure, let's add 10 billion to the price tag for the hell of it!
Click to expand...

Now now, let's not understate the benefits of going over or under the Lake........

It saves up to ~500m; or at average between station speeds (~60km/ph) about 30s travel time for a passenger.

Plus, it by-passes all those rowdies at Sunnyside Beach, no subway for them!

😄
 
Northern Light said:
Now now, let's not understate the benefits of going over or under the Lake........

It saves up to ~500m; or at average between station speeds (~60km/ph) about 30s travel time for a passenger.

Plus, it by-passes all those rowdies at Sunnyside Beach, no subway for them!

😄
Click to expand...
Will depend on how deep under the sand and silt will it take to reach bedrock. Click on image (twice) below to enlarge.

NOAA_Bathymetric_map_of_the_Niagara_Basin.jpg
From link.
 
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44 North said:
Bedrock surface is very shallow near the lake. It dips substantially around Humber Bay though.
Click to expand...
Not as deep as the Yonge North extension is going to be underground to get around some Nimbys though. :)

Towered said:
Sure, let's add 10 billion to the price tag for the hell of it!
Click to expand...
Four km of bored tunnel won't add $10 billion. The simple boring of a tunnel isn't a particularly expensive part of the job; it's all the extra structures ... of which there will be none underneath the lake. Should be a lot cheaper than the tunnelling, portals, and underground stations on the rest of that line.

It's quite an interesting idea. Not worth it if there is extra capacity available on the rail corridor. But do we really want to use all our extra rail corridor width for Ontario Line projects that should/could be better located, rather than future-proofing them for projects like HSR and HFR, and other RER-like projects?
 
I was kind of joking when I threw that crude map in, but there would be advantages. I always thought a submerged prefab tunnel was more plausible than using TBMs. No stops between Dufferin Gate and Humber Bay Shores. The streetcar fills in along the shore.
 
Last edited:
I was saying something, at some point........about the waterfront east LRT moving forward...............

From the budget notes for the Transit Expansion Office:

1642168839902.png


Note that the capital project for this line itself is still listed as 'unfunded'.

But its a very near-term and specific unfunded:

1642169015096.png
 
Northern Light said:
Note that the capital project for this line itself is still listed as 'unfunded'.
Click to expand...
To my understanding, Appendix 8: Capital Needs Constraints shows projects that are unfunded due to a lack of resources or money. The tax-rate is set first, so we end up with projects that are left out of the budget because of a tax-rate (and other revenue sources) that are too small. Am I right in my understanding that the Waterfront East LRT was supposed to receive $42.37 million this year and that it was deferred? If so, then how is this good news and what are they going to do in the meantime? We've seen so many great renderings, and I thought that funding would be secured this year in order to complete detailed design and a business case... which in itself is necessary to secure funding from the federal & provincial governments. So does that mean that nothing will happen in 2022 and that the project was pushed back a full year?
 
daniel_kryz said:
To my understanding, Appendix 8: Capital Needs Constraints shows projects that are unfunded due to a lack of resources or money. The tax-rate is set first, so we end up with projects that are left out of the budget because of a tax-rate (and other revenue sources) that are too small. Am I right in my understanding that the Waterfront East LRT was supposed to receive $42.37 million this year and that it was deferred? If so, then how is this good news and what are they going to do in the meantime? We've seen so many great renderings, and I thought that funding would be secured this year in order to complete detailed design and a business case... which in itself is necessary to secure funding from the federal & provincial governments. So does that mean that nothing will happen in 2022 and that the project was pushed back a full year?
Click to expand...

Stay tuned.
 
Excellently pulled out of the Waterfront Toronto Rolling Five Year Strategic Plan by Northern Light in the Lower Don Lands Revitalisation thread - and copying here for your info.

We continue to make progress on design and engineering for surface works on Queens Quay East between Bay Street and the future New Cherry Street, and on New Cherry Street from Queens Quay to a new loop just north of the Ship Channel (Polson Loop). These components, along with the design work being led by the TTC to expand the existing Union Station and Queens Quay underground streetcar stations, make up Phase 1 of the Waterfront East RT Extension project. In the coming fiscal year (2022-2023), subject to funding approval, we aim to advance design for these segments beyond 30%.

Our design and engineering work is helping inform a business case and Environmental Project Report (EPR) - being developed in collaboration with City staff and the TTC, and shaped by public input that will be submitted to Toronto City Council in early 2022. Based on this foundational package of information, Toronto City Council will determine the path forward for transit in the area, including with respect to funding.
Click to expand...
 
44 North said:
Ok that's pretty interesting and new. Wetland, daylit creek, and greenwall as part of a streetcar underpass. I love water.
Click to expand...
Doing this, along with all the space around villiers island, will make the east end of the waterfront a truly amazing public realm. I hope they are able to find the money and political will to make this happen.
 
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